Combining and/or stacking Newton with Refractor Data

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Dcolam avatar
Hi All,

I might have a nice deal for an 6"ONTC Newtonian which at 600mm (f4) has a very similar FOV and pixelscale as my Esprit 100ED.

I am playing with the thought of mounting those side by side and have a parallel setup to gather double the lights (one at f5.5 and one at f4).

Stupid idea? Am I maybe a bit to naive that working with a fast newtonian could be that straightforward?

Also, when combining the stacks, the Esprit would be mono and the newtonian OSC with dualband filters. After registration and remove stars, they should be able to be combined, right?

Cheers,
David
Engaging
andrea tasselli avatar
More like the triple of the light with the 6", more likely a little over the 3:1 ratio. Being a fast newtonian it requires careful collimation at least intially so this is a given. And a coma corrector and a good one too. Otherwise, if the mount can handle a side-by-side arrangement, you are good to go. As for the data, if you are careful about what you are doing yes, that shouldn't be a problem other than for the choice of stars with spike or no spikes.
Dcolam avatar
andrea tasselli:
More like the triple of the light with the 6", more likely a little over the 3:1 ratio. Being a fast newtonian it requires careful collimation at least intially so this is a given. And a coma corrector and a good one too. Otherwise, if the mount can handle a side-by-side arrangement, you are good to go. As for the data, if you are careful about what you are doing yes, that shouldn't be a problem other than for the choice of stars with spike or no spikes.



Thanks, Andrea.

The two scopes are 1 stop in difference (f4 to f5.5), so the newtonian should be twice as fast as the Esprit. If it is just as sharp, then I would be very happy.

My remaining concerns are about the collimation and how well the scope can hold it. I am planning on goinf remote for this summer and ideally, the parallel scopes would be installed there.

Does anyone know if ONTC lose collimation easily if they are not carried around and installed on a pier?

The other issue would be the mount, which would need an upgrade to somethinf with more load capacities.

A lot of unknown factors, the project sounds appealing as I could gather more light and maximize the time going remote.
Engaging
andrea tasselli avatar
I don't have one (I wish) but my cheapest example of newt, a Photon, hasn't been collimated since early March this year. Some of the others haven't been in a need of collimation for over a year. I expect an ONTC to do just as well if not better. Planning for at least two collimation sessions per year would be however wise, in tune with the change for hot weather to cold and vice-versa. Plan also for tilt correction device or a camera with one.
astrodan avatar
Hi David,

I have already put your idea into practice, even with an more different combination:
  • Luminance: 34 x 300‘’ > G2-8300 + Newton 250/1000mm
  • RGB: 33 x 300‘’ > ASI2600MC-Pro + SkyWatcher 80/600mm, with reducer 510mm

My intention was to get an object finished in one night. I already had the two telescopes independently of each other and had not purchased them separately for this experiment. The Skywatcher refractor was piggybacked onto the Newtonian. 

Here you can see the result:
https://www.astrobin.com/i7ezdq/K/




I was positively surprised that such a good result could be achieved despite the physical differences. The stars were not blended in, but the RGB information was processed into the luminance using LRGB in PI.  It was already clear in advance that the spikes would not contain any colour information, but in the end this prevented me from continuing with this setup. Beautiful starcolours and spikes with the coloured diffraction are too important to me, as here in the single-variety setup:

Messier 39 with G2-8300 + Newton 250/1000mm
  • Luminance 8 * 300"
  • RGB 5 * 300" each

https://www.astrobin.com/356817/K/


I hope this information helps you!

CS Daniel
Helpful Engaging Supportive
Dunk avatar
Hi All,

I might have a nice deal for an 6"ONTC Newtonian which at 600mm (f4) has a very similar FOV and pixelscale as my Esprit 100ED.

I am playing with the thought of mounting those side by side and have a parallel setup to gather double the lights (one at f5.5 and one at f4).

Stupid idea? Am I maybe a bit to naive that working with a fast newtonian could be that straightforward?

Also, when combining the stacks, the Esprit would be mono and the newtonian OSC with dualband filters. After registration and remove stars, they should be able to be combined, right?

Cheers,
David

I did this (although not nearly on the same level as @astrodan  above).

Ha: Epsilon 130 (430mm, F/3.3): https://www.astrobin.com/85hqbk/

And then combined with OSC from a WO GT71 (336mm, F/4.7): https://www.astrobin.com/co98b4/


Edit: Ugh! I missed the whole "side-by-side" part. So no, I didn't do that. But was same mount and location.. ;-)
Dcolam avatar
Thank you @Dunk  and @astrodan for the insight. I just actually got a master file with 2.5hrs on the north american nebula.

Yes, the stars are not perfect, but to me it seems more like a problem with spacing and maybe some tilt. What do the experts think?

Without Bluxexterminator




With Blurexterminator:




Having dealt with a Samyang lens, these problems seems solveable, right?

Thanks for the help.
andrea tasselli avatar
I'd venture to say that it looks more  like a spacing issue rather than tilt, I can definitely see some field curvature there and not much tilt. What CC was used with the scope?
Dcolam avatar
andrea tasselli:
I'd venture to say that it looks more  like a spacing issue rather than tilt, I can definitely see some field curvature there and not much tilt. What CC was used with the scope?




Yes, my thought exactly, too. And I guess the guy that is selling the scope just didnt realize that and was correcting collimation issues when there were also obviously some spacing issue. He replaced also the secondary mirror spiders etc.

I think it is the TS Superflat 1x corrector.
Dcolam avatar
andrea tasselli:
I'd venture to say that it looks more  like a spacing issue rather than tilt, I can definitely see some field curvature there and not much tilt. What CC was used with the scope?



FWHM analysis on Siril suggests quite some tilt, or am I wrong?




Compared to the almost same region in SHO and with my Esprit.



My question being, should I pull the trigger and try to resolve the stars on the ONTC or if it would take too much hassle and fiddling.

Cheers,
David
andrea tasselli avatar
You shouldn't use NB data for evaluating tilt, especially across different systems. The amount of tilt is relatively minor compared to the spacing issue and Id' try to reselve the latter first (easier) and the tilt later on. Whether it is worth your time and effort it is up to you but I'd go after the spacing issue for sure and leave tilt for later. Or just use BXT. Up to you.