Looking to make a field battery

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Brian Sweeney avatar
Hello Friends,

I am looking to build a battery pack to run my and my friend's equipment out in the desert.
I have created the following mock up before beginning and would like somebody to double check everything will work.
What suggestions or changes do you have? Anything I should be concerned with?

None of the stuff we are connecting to the power poles use more than 5amps.
We decided to use the victron smart shunt for battery monitoring on our phones, rather than adding a screen for the box.

I have the following questions:
  • For the wall charger, does the battery positive go before or after the fuse?
    • If I ever added solar in the future, does the MPPT positive connect before or after the fuse?

  • Is the fuse on the radio sized correctly? I couldn't find any where on the manufacturer's page.


Here is the list of items in the picture:


Greg McCall avatar
Re powerpole setup, you have two powerpoles per circuit. If max expected is 5A for each, then 2 x 5A is 10A (so perhaps a 15A fuse)

Fuses protect the wiring. So a fuse suitable for the main power feed that is big enough to carry the load without blowing but small enough to blow before anything downstream burns/melts or the battery exceeds it's maximum current draw. The charger probably uses thinner cable so should be protected separately.

Fuses are best kept close to the source as possible (eg. on the battery terminal if possible). That will protect against a short circuit across the cable for any short past the fuse so the closer to the battery, the more cable that is protected.

Checkout the Cooper Bussmann MRBF on page 33 of the victron doc at https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf

The document has heaps of information on wiring and cable sizes as well.
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Scott Lockwood avatar
Hi Brian
I have two thoughts on what you have drawn
1) If you are going to draw 80amps or close to it, your 100amp battery isn't going to last very long.
2) It would be much better to use multiple batteries which will also protect one piece of equipment from spikes from another.

My setup uses one battery for the camera, one for the mount and focus motor, and one for the computer.
All 100amp and 80apm/hr batteries. With this setup, I can easily get two nights of imaging, 3 in the summer.

Scott
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Greg McCall avatar
Keep in mind the wire size from the battery is determined by the maximum current being drawn and the length of the cable. 
The fuse size is not the addition of the fuses in the circuit. It just protects the wiring. No sense using an 80A fuse if the main wiring to the fuse panel can’t carry 80A as the wire will burn out before the fuse. 

most wiring will be under 15A so that would be the max fuse for each circuit. Probably only need 30 or 40A main fuse. 

manufacturer often quotes max current for a device. Don’t add up max current of any mains transformers you’re replacing as that will be an overkill 

I drive dew heaters, eq mount, focuser, computer etc. with about 8 gauge cable 500mm to battery with a 40A fuse on the battery. I have a two fuse bussman module on the battery with the second wired to a Anderson connector that I can connect a charger too. 

A 125AH LiFePO4 battery can last the 10 or 12 hrs in the winter night and drop to about 30% depending on how much slewing you do and the dew power used in high humidity. 

best to go conservative on battery size. You will get more discharge/charge cycles if you don’t flatten the battery and charge it after use. Check the cycle specifications for each DOD in the manufacturer battery data sheet
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Brian Sweeney avatar
Thank you for the wiring unlimited document Greg, that has been a very useful read! I will need to go through it again another time or two.

@Greg McCall, do you mind posting a picture of fuse bussman? I would like to see how it is connected and how you connect the charger to it.

The back of the power poles mount look like this, so that is why I had to lines coming out of the fuse block. Is it better to have a single line and split it at the plug?



Regarding the 80 amp fuse. I was just trying to make sure I can run all the plugs at once, but that will be far from the norm. I was also planning on using one of the many wire size calculators online. I tried to indicate that by drawing fatter wires in my diagram.

Most of the time it will be just me using it, but I want to be able to support my friend when he wants to go.

My telescope will take 4 amps to run the camera/telescope/etc and a separate 5 amp line for dew heaters on the extremely rare nights I need those (I live in Phoenix). 
My computer has a large battery that can last most of the night, but would pull 2.5 amps from that cigarette lighter. The cigarette lighter is rated for 15 amps, so I figured I would have a fuse big enough for those times I want to plug something else into it.

On a normal night for me, I should be able to have ~16 hours of battery life. An 8 hour night would take me to 50% which I hear is fine for LiFePO4 batteries. On the battle born website, it states:
"Conversely, LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries can be continually discharged to 100% and there is no long-term effect. You can expect to easily get 3000 – 5000 cycles at this depth of discharge."

When my friend comes along, he will be using 2 more power pole connections and a usb connection for his camera. His gear pulls around 4 amps.
I will still have 8-10 hours of battery life between the two of us.

It will be learning experience with the battery to determine how it actually fits into my use case along with the random cellphone or tablet that is charged to keep the support crew entertained.

Regarding using separate batteries. I have an iOptron CEM 70g, which passes electricity from the ground to the dec plate, so I have been running everything off of a shared line already.
Greg McCall avatar
Hi
Re fuses at the battery terminal, this is the type of thing.
(I use a two fuse setup on one battery - 40A to short cable a (grey) Anderson SB50 connector and a short thicker cable with another (black) SB50 with a 100A fuse for a 600W inverter - black and grey SB50 are interchangeable so if I'm not using the inverter, I just plug the charger into that plug)
I have a short SB50 to powerpole 8g cable which plugs into a rig runner with power pole connectors on it.
I don't use a battery box. Just some stick-on padding and straps to hold cables in place. The straps also hold a metal battery base for bottom protection.

https://www.swe-check.com.au/series/fuse-bars-for-marine-rated-battery-fuses
https://www.swe-check.com.au/product/bussmann-marine-rated-battery-fuses-mrbf-cbbf-fuses

as long as you have the cable sizing correct, it doesn't really matter if you parallel them up for that double powerpole socket. You are only protecting the cable so if either short, the fuse blows and both circuits will lose power. Two fuses mean if one short, one socket loses power. I think if you have something that drastic happens, doesn't matter which fuse blows, you are stopping your imaging to fix the drastic issue.

My batteries either have a built-in state of charge meter (Enerdrive or invictor batteries) or an external shunt with a state of charge meter. That is one way to measure your load. Another is to use an Ammeter.

No battery can be used to 100% so that is a marketing fudge that people assume that they have the full capacity.
LiFePO4 batteries have a relatively flat discharge curve. At about 80%, you're dropping below your 12v. If you have 0.5v cable drop, they your gear will probably need 12.5v battery. I think some mounts get upset below 12 so for example, 12.5 - 0.5 = 12. But it's best to measure it

So really, the 100% claim probably means you will not wreck the battery on a complete discharge. (and the BMS wouldn't let you go below a certain rate anyway)
BUT , it's not something you want to do. You might get 2000 cycles at 80% discharge but 8000 cycles at 30% discharge. Manufactureres should have data sheets showing battery voltage discharge curve over time and life cycles at various DOD. (smaller DOD, more cycles.

I also did some Zoom presentations for our local  astro clubs if interested (warning, they are a bit lengthy) 
https://www.youtube.com/c/GregMcCallSydney/videos
Bob Lockwood avatar
I’d say that if you like the way you have everything setup, stay with that. The one thing I would change is, unless you really want to spend $900 on a single lithium-ion battery, I’d go with 2 or 3 good AGM 100+ Ah deep cycle batteries, and you’d probably still have some cash left over.
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Greg McCall avatar
LiFePO4 is a 1/3 of the weight. Important for a portable setup, easier on the back, lasts longer and faster to charge.
Brian Sweeney avatar
Thanks for the feedback guys. I would like to stick with LiFePO4 just for the weight and deep discharge advantages. I have updated my fuse to an MRBF as suggested.

I have been looking at the victron battery protect to add the ability to automatically disconnect the battery when it is below a certain charge. It seems like you need to have one for the charging line and one for the load line. Is there a better solution for this?

https://www.victronenergy.com/battery_protect/battery-protect
Page 3 here
https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-Battery-Protect-12V-24V-65-A-100-A--220-A-EN-NL-FR-SV-DE-PT-ES-TR-IT.pdf

Greg McCall avatar
I don't see the need for a battery protect. While it's not advisable to drain any battery completely, lead acid types (eg. gel and AGM) are greatly impacted by being completely drained compared to LiFePO4 (some would suggest/claim to have no impact on LiFePO4).
Also, I can't imagine your astro setup using more than 40A so I can't see the reason to use an 80A fuse. Oversizing cable is great to reduce voltage drop. Oversizing fuses just leaves an opportunity for more things downstream to burn or melt before that oversized fuse blows. It's not a mater of just adding up the downstream fuses either.
cheers
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Brian Sweeney avatar
Thanks. I'll switch it down to a 40amp fuse.

I found a pelican box that everything should fit comfortably inside of.
https://www.pelican.com/us/en/product/cases/cargo/bx80

I attempted to draw it up in CAD. I didn't realize the radio and speakers were going to take up so much space, but there is still plenty of room between that and the battery.

How did you strap your battery down to make sure it doesn't move?





Brian Sweeney avatar
I have finally started receiving parts for the box. Started working out a stencil for the top. Planning on mounting the lights on the lid.

Olaf Fritsche avatar
Looks like the very special briefcase of the US president.  smile

Nah, seriously: Looks very professional!
Steven avatar
Getting a headache looking at this already smile the magic of electrics isn't made for me.
But I am interested in one day getting a field battery, but would get one off the shelve most likely. 
Since.. well.. I'm not expert on magic.. Probably something, including solar power, that you'd throw in the back of a caravan or camper. 

Question: how do you know if a battery is powerful enough to keep your stuff running?
is there a simple way of knowing? Or would it be:
- calculating the watts for every single item individually,
-adding it up..
-times it by the hours I'd want to run it,
- and figuring it out that way.


I'd be running: (worst case)

EQ6-R pro
ZWO Asiair Pro
ZWO ASI 183MM Cooled 
ZWO ASI 120MM
ZWO Filterwheel
ZWO EAF
USB Dewheater
USB TP link
+ maybe a USB to charge an iPad/iPhone 

Possibly considering a "side by side" setup. Where I'll mount 2 scopes on 1 mount.
Or have the second run on something like a skywatcher star adventure, on battery power
Which would mean another:

ZWO Asiair
ZWO ASI 183MC Cooled
ZWO ASI 120MC
ZWO EAF
USB Dewheater


Is there a simple way to figure this out?
astropical avatar
>What suggestions or changes do you have? 

A fire extinguisher 🤡

Seriously, this is an inspiring project. A power pack like yours would also be great for black-outs during and after a typhoon, etc.
Best luck!
Robert
Gustav Lundby avatar
I'm using same LiFe 12V 100Ah battery and same Victron 15Ah smart charger. But my setup is much simpler. From battery to a fused 3 way sig connector. Then from this to the mount itself and to a PegasusAstro Pocket Powerbox Advance that takes care of all the rest of power distribution and regulating for main OTA. 

On top of main scope I have a complete self contained piggyback camera with it's own power distribution (a car thing with two 12v sig and two 5v 2.4A USB charge ports) This is connected to the third sig outlet at tripod.

Pic: Under construction. Pegasus to be mounted on Losmandy plate in front. On top of second Raspberry Pi4 is power distribution for the piggy back. Idea is to make the piggy back self contained so it eventually can be used separately from main scope.
Brian Sweeney avatar
Getting a headache looking at this already  the magic of electrics isn't made for me.
But I am interested in one day getting a field battery, but would get one off the shelve most likely. 
Since.. well.. I'm not expert on magic.. Probably something, including solar power, that you'd throw in the back of a caravan or camper. 

Question: how do you know if a battery is powerful enough to keep your stuff running?
is there a simple way of knowing? Or would it be:
- calculating the watts for every single item individually,
-adding it up..
-times it by the hours I'd want to run it,
- and figuring it out that way.
...

Hi Steven,

This is exactly what you do. Each device should have how many amps it draws available on the manufacturer website for you to add up.
As a rough approximation, you could power everything through a kill-a-watt type device to see how much power you use in a typical night and convert from your mains voltage down to 12 volt to determine your amp hours needed.
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Brian Sweeney avatar
Finally got all the parts delivered and some time to put it together.

The lights are attached with velcro so I can take them off and point them in other directions as needed.
- 6 anderson power pole connections
- 4 USB connections
- 2 cigarette lighter connections

Thanks for your help everybody!



James Markgraf avatar
That is incredibly cool and very professional looking. Thanks for the inspiration! I think it's time for me to break out my electrician's tools and get to work on something similar for myself.
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Brian Sweeney avatar
Thanks James! I have since added the missing panel on the top left, added a dimming sheet on the radio, and cleaned up the wires going to the lights on the lid.

I do not know what is going on with the photos above. On my laptop they are the correct orientation, on the phone, they are sideways.

Scott Lockwood avatar
Hi Brian
Very impressive. I have two questions though
1) How much did you end up spending on the whole package?
2)How long will it run your set up before needing to be recharged?

Scott
Brian Sweeney avatar
Hi Scott,

The battery was 800 dollars.
The case was 200 dollars.
The smart shunt was 130.
The radio was 110.
The rest of the stuff was less than 150.
You can definitely do it for a lot cheaper!

By myself, this will last me for 2-3 nights.
Scott Lockwood avatar
Thanks
Scott