CEM70 EC or CEM70EC2 - Forums

Topic starter

Mar 30, 2024

HI

I currently have an ioptron cem70 nuc mount and would like to upgrade and get the same model with encoder.
I saw that ioptron provides the single encoder version on AR and the AR and DEC double encoder version.
In your opinion, is it worth having the double encoder?

Riccardo

pessorrusso

Mar 30, 2024

My cem70g (without encoder) has 0.19 to 0.24 total error at 1200mm. I don’t see why move to an encoder unless you want to go unguided (which in my opinion is not necessary).
Spend the money elsewhere. Improve your guiding error with a proper pier or tri-pier, add weight to the base, etc.

Helpful Concise

Riccardo Civati

Topic starter

Mar 30, 2024

i also have a guiding error about 0.25 arc second but sometimes in different point of sky my guiding get worse

SavannahCarl

Mar 30, 2024

I own the 70ec with encoder only on RA and it's great but I believe having the encoders on both axes would be beneficial assuming decent skies and all other things being equal (good PA, stable well-balanced rig, etc, etc). While I believe the RA encoder is the most helpful, If you can afford both go for it.

Ryan

Mar 30, 2024

Hey there Riccardo. What are you trying to accomplish with this upgrade and what other options are you considering to achieve that? My experience with the CEM 70 is that while the guiding sometimes has asymmetric error in each axis (which does drive me bonkers), it is always within tolerance such that I am sky-limited vs. guiding limited. I have considered upgrading to an AstroPhysics mount with encoders, mostly because I think it is a cool piece of gear and will hold a larger load. I keep trying to convince myself that the guiding will be better (which it will, and probably w/o needing to use PhD guiding) but I am convinced that the guiding won't have a noticeable impact on the image quality.

But that is just my opinion. I would suggest posting your question on the cloudynights forum. I am pretty sure you will get several people there who have tried both and who can give their testimonial and maybe actual data to corroborate that testimonial.

–Ryan

Helpful Insightful Respectful Engaging Supportive

Riccardo Civati

Topic starter

Mar 30, 2024

I considered the JTW astronomy mounts but the price is higher than the ioptron.
I would also have to replace my pier too

certainly having a mount with a greater load is advantageous, but at the moment the optics I have are perfect for the sky in which I photograph, so I have no intention of changing optics.

the idea of getting the cem 70 EC NUC was for the simple fact that my upgrade would be quick and without hardware changes

wsg

Mar 30, 2024

Ioptron HAE69. I replaced both my 70's and and could not be happier.

scott

Scott Badger

Mar 30, 2024

Ryan:
My experience with the CEM 70 is that while the guiding sometimes has asymmetric error in each axis (which does drive me bonkers), it is always within tolerance such that I am sky-limited vs. guiding limited.

Same here, and not something I've heard brought up much in guiding discussions. A flat guiding line is a beautiful thing, but anything under 1" with my 3" sky isn't going to be much of a benefit. The way I gauge it is whether my guided stars (4-10min) equal my best autofocus 4sec exposures.

Cheers,
Scott

Alan Sipling

Mar 31, 2024

It's always difficult when you have the urge for new gear. But back to basics, are your stars round? Personally I wouldn't want to spend ioptron encoder money and still have ioptron "quality" mount. I'd rather save for longer and get a high end mount. I have a CEM70G and had a wiring fault that kept disconnecting equipment. The quality of the inside components is really quite poor. That's my penny worth.

Scott Badger

Mar 31, 2024

Alan Sipling:
It's always difficult when you have the urge for new gear. But back to basics, are your stars round? Personally I wouldn't want to spend ioptron encoder money and still have ioptron "quality" mount. I'd rather save for longer and get a high end mount. I have a CEM70G and had a wiring fault that kept disconnecting equipment. The quality of the inside components is really quite poor. That's my penny worth.

I’m on both sides of that fence…. Overall, I’m very happy with my (plain) 70; as someone else said in another thread, it just works. Through wind and poor seeing, stars may be bloated, but stay round. In 250 or so images across 5-10 nights, there might be 10 with eccentricity above 0.5.

That said, though I haven’t had any of the more serious wiring and circuit board issues others have encountered, 1) my handset intermittently fails to finish booting up (not a big deal since I never use it), 2) the find zero position function doesn’t work (the mount over-rotates and runs into itself) so I have to manually set the zero position at the start of each night, and 3) I’ve run into the ‘device not found’ issue a couple times…..the first time seemed to be a usb problem, the second time was resolved after re-installing the driver, but who knows….

Note that my mount is a couple years old, so (hopefully) newer mounts have better quality control.

Cheers,
Scott

Well Written Helpful Insightful Respectful Engaging

Gunder Strømberg

Mar 31, 2024 · Edited: Mar 31, 2024

Alan Sipling:
I have a CEM70G and had a wiring fault that kept disconnecting equipment. The quality of the inside components is really quite poor. That's my penny worth.

*** I have had my CEM70 (regular) since late 2022. Recently my asiair+ turn itself off and restart every once in a while. I have thought it was a bad cable, but not so sure any more.
May I ask under what circumstances your equipment disconnects ?

Gunder Strømberg

Mar 31, 2024

Ioptron HAE69. I replaced both my 70's and and could not be happier.

scott

*** According to what I can find this HAE69 can handle ca. 31kg without any counterweights. Is that for visual or imaging?
May I ask how much weight you have put on yours?
I am asking since I concider replacing my CEM70.

Alan Sipling

Mar 31, 2024

It mostly occured when doing a slew, but occasionally it would be connect equipment at the start of a session, sometimes things would disconnect while imaging. It appeared quite random, but I was trouble shooting one day, and with everything connected, I disengaged the Ra clutch and manually slewed the scope and it disconnected various equipment nearly every time I went about 90°. My mount was about a year old and contacted iOptron who wanted me to send the boards and cables back for testing. My dealer said that could take months so I opted to buy new boards and cables. If you harass iOptron they will give you a discount and option of a refund when they receive the faulty parts back.

Helpful

Gunder Strømberg

Mar 31, 2024

Alan Sipling:
It mostly occured when doing a slew, but occasionally it would be connect equipment at the start of a session, sometimes things would disconnect while imaging. It appeared quite random, but I was trouble shooting one day, and with everything connected, I disengaged the Ra clutch and manually slewed the scope and it disconnected various equipment nearly every time I went about 90°. My mount was about a year old and contacted iOptron who wanted me to send the boards and cables back for testing. My dealer said that could take months so I opted to buy new boards and cables. If you harass iOptron they will give you a discount and option of a refund when they receive the faulty parts back.

*** Sounds alarming, what You describe is what I experience.
Did You buy it directly from iOptron?

pessorrusso

Mar 31, 2024

regarding disconnects: in my case wasn't a circuit issue, it was due to the USB connector. It used to happen exactly during slew, specially during nights with big temperature swing.

I fixed it with an electric tape, forcing the usb connector into up direction (like a "U" latch on both ends: mount base USB and top USB hub). It never happened again.

Helpful Concise

Gunder Strømberg

Mar 31, 2024

regarding disconnects: in my case wasn't a circuit issue, it was due to the USB connector. It used to happen exactly during slew, specially during nights with big temperature swing.

I fixed it with an electric tape, forcing the usb connector into up direction (like a "U" latch on both ends: mount base USB and top USB hub). It never happened again.

*** Not sure I understand what You write

- are You refering to the USB cable going from the base up to asiair/equipment on the saddle ?

Leonardo Landi

Mar 31, 2024

Ciao Riccardo
I've also recently been looking for something to replace my current eq6r pro, because I'm preparing a setup to install remotely at the Deep Lab. I've read a lot about high-capacity mounts, and I was about to buy the eq8rh with AR-only encoder. In the end, however, I reasoned on the fact that regardless of the encoders, the mount, however good, still remains a product made in China. So I decided to make more of an effort and got a GM1000.

pessorrusso

Mar 31, 2024

Mine is not the nuc version, I use an external computer. connections:

* focused and guider>top hub
* base >top hub
* top hub (middle of the mount, behind the polar cam) > pc (usb 2.0)
* main camera > pc (usb 3)

I use wire tape on both ends of the usb cable from base to top usb hub

Alan Sipling

Apr 1, 2024

Gunder, my local dealer offered to repair, but if they didn't have the correct components they said it may be months to get them from iOptron. So I opted to buy the replacement parts direct from iOptron in USA. That way I could keep my scope running and put up with the disconnects (I'm in the UK and clear skies are rare so I didn't want to miss any). I pestered them and got a discount and a promise to refund my purchase once they received the faulty parts back. I had the parts in about 10 days, so not too bad. The repair was quite simple. Took about 30 mins. You can check if it's a USB port issue just by wiggling them. This can be an issue as they suggested packing the usb plug to reduce any play.

Helpful Engaging Supportive

Gunder Strømberg

Apr 1, 2024

Alan Sipling:
Gunder, my local dealer offered to repair, but if they didn't have the correct components they said it may be months to get them from iOptron. So I opted to buy the replacement parts direct from iOptron in USA. That way I could keep my scope running and put up with the disconnects (I'm in the UK and clear skies are rare so I didn't want to miss any). I pestered them and got a discount and a promise to refund my purchase once they received the faulty parts back. I had the parts in about 10 days, so not too bad. The repair was quite simple. Took about 30 mins. You can check if it's a USB port issue just by wiggling them. This can be an issue as they suggested packing the usb plug to reduce any play.

*** Ok

I live in northern Norway, so this season ends early April. I will "do the wiggling" to check it out. If it turns out to be an internal problem I'll probably send it back as next season starts around September 1st up here at 65 degrees north.
Thanks for the input

Alan Sipling

Apr 1, 2024

Good luck. iOptron call it a "stock up plan". They offer 30% discount on the parts with the promise that they will refund (except P&P) once they have the faulty parts back and tested them.

Loran Hughes

Apr 1, 2024

Alan Sipling:
It's always difficult when you have the urge for new gear. But back to basics, are your stars round? Personally I wouldn't want to spend ioptron encoder money and still have ioptron "quality" mount. I'd rather save for longer and get a high end mount. I have a CEM70G and had a wiring fault that kept disconnecting equipment. The quality of the inside components is really quite poor. That's my penny worth.

My CEM70G's onboard USB hub drove me crazy with disconnects and/or just plain not finding the device at boot up. I finally bypassed it with a Pegasus Powerbox, which works perfectly and haven't tried to troubleshoot it since. It's pretty finicky with its 12v hub too. I like the mount, but I wish I hadn't wasted money on the G variant.

Well Written Concise

Alan Sipling

Apr 1, 2024

I use a Pegasus UPBv2 but connect it to the usb hub on the mount to save snagged cables etc.

Gunder Strømberg

Apr 1, 2024

Alan Sipling:
Good luck. iOptron call it a "stock up plan". They offer 30% discount on the parts with the promise that they will refund (except P&P) once they have the faulty parts back and tested them.

*** Did the test You mentioned, turned everything on, unlocked and moved the scope manually from one end to the other in the DEC axis, AsiAir powered off and the on again. However this actually happened several times during the test, even when nothing was moved.
I got two powersupplies, one 12V 5Amp powering the mount, one 12V 10Amp powering the end of the RA axis.

AsiAir gets power from the saddles "no. 1" and main camera/EAF from saddles "no. 2".
AsiAir powering two dew heater bands (50%). Main camera, guide camera and mount connected to the USB ports on the AsiAir.

Can't really see that power supply should be insufficient, neither for AsiAir nor camera/EAF ?

Alan Sipling

Apr 1, 2024

Gunder, have you tried swapping the power supplies over? Just to see if the asiair needs more than 5 amp. There is the chance that you have multiple issues. Hopefully not tho. I would get disconnections just while tracking aswell. It was that inconsistent I initially thought it was the UPBv2 playing up. Everything runs fine now I have swapped the boards and cables.

Helpful Concise Supportive