Cooling ideas?”” - Forums

Topic starter

Jun 5, 2021

Hello all!

I live in Michigan and sometimes we get really warm summer night! I was out last night and while its not technically summer it was quite warm! 77º for the most part and 72º by 5am. I’m sure many of you live in warmer climates as well and am hoping those of you that do can give me a few ideas what you do to help cool your camera when it can’t get down to your target temp?
My camera is the ZWO 294mc pro and it was not able to get down to -15º (Fahrenheit) which as you know creates extra noise that you don’t want not to mention the body gets warm (cooler running at 100%) which I’m sure that doesn’t help things either.

Do any of you have this issue and if you do what do you do to help the cooling of the camera?

Thanks in advance!

wsg

Jun 5, 2021 · Edited: Jun 5, 2021

Dale. A good practice is to cool to a temperature that your camera can comfortably achieve in all seasons, this gives you consistency in calibration frames from target to target and is easy to check and not worry about. -15F is nearly -30 C., and unfortunately minus 30 Celsius is usually a stated maximum by the manufacturer but almost impossible for most cameras to achieve outside of a design laboratory, especially in warmer climates. In addition there is debate weather there is any added benefit at all to cooling much below -10C. I own an asi294 mc pro and it achieves -10C all year round but not much lower with any consistency, so I leave it set to -10, like all my other cameras.
A good bit of advise someone once gave me was to find images i like on Astrobin and read the details and technical information to learn how they produced the image, it is amazing what can be learned.

scott

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Steven

Jun 5, 2021 · Edited: Jun 6, 2021

Most cameras are rated for a specific temperature. the 294 is rated to a maximum of 35 degrees celsius BELOW the ambient temperature.. so.. there is your limit. (And remember, this does not mean "-35 celsius".. this means "35 degrees lower than the current outside air temperature)

With the -15 degrees Fahrenheit you're attempting to achieve a temperature difference of almost 50 degrees celsius, 15 more than the camera is capable of, that simply isn't going to work.

There isn't anything you can really do about that, that's the limit of the camera.
Even the more expensive camera's tend to have the 35/40 degree below ambient temperature limit.

At an ambient temperature of 72 degree Fahrenheit, you're probably looking at about 14 degrees Fahrenheit as your cooling temperature. That would be a consistent temperature it can keep, without running at 100%.

I wouldn't know about rigging up an additional cooling system, but, you might be going in realms and "solutions" that simply aren't worth it in regard to time, money, technical stuff.

It is probably the best to make a new sets of darks for a new temperature. And use that to get rid of noise as far as you can.
Personally that's why I use 2 different settings. 1 for summer at -10 degrees C. and 1 for winter at -20 degrees C.
with 2 separate libraries of darks and such. Or, go for a setting that it can do all year round.

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Dale Penkala

Topic starter

Jun 5, 2021

Dale. A good practice is to cool to a temperature that your camera can comfortably achieve in all seasons, this gives you consistency in calibration frames from target to target and is easy to check and not worry about. -15F is nearly -30 C., and unfortunately minus 30 Celsius is usually a stated maximum by the manufacturer but almost impossible for most cameras to achieve outside of a design laboratory, especially in warmer climates. In addition there is debate weather there is any added benefit at all to cooling much below -10C. I own an asi294 mc pro and it achieves -10C all year round but not much lower with any consistency, so I leave it set to -10, like all my other cameras.
A good bit of advise someone once gave me was to find images i like on Astrobin and read the details and technical information to learn how they produced the image, it is amazing what can be learned.

scott

Thanks Scott for the info, yes I read quite a bit on the details fo the capture but honestly I don’t see much in the way of temp’s but maybe thats just from the people that I’ve look at.

I used to cool to -10f as well but thru the winter I went to -15f so maybe I should change temp’s here then for the summer months.

Thanks!
Dale

Dale Penkala

Topic starter

Jun 5, 2021

Most cameras are rated for a specific temperature. the 294 is rated to a maximum of 35 degrees celsius BELOW the ambient temperature.. so.. there is your limit.

With the -15 degrees Fahrenheit you're attempting to achieve a temperature difference of almost 50 degrees celsius, 15 more than the camera is capable of, that simply isn't going to work.

There isn't anything you can really do about that, that's the limit of the camera.
Even the more expensive camera's tend to have the 35/40 degree below ambient temperature limit.

At an ambient temperature of 72 degree Fahrenheit, you're probably looking at about 14 degrees Fahrenheit as your cooling temperature. That would be a consistent temperature it can keep, without running at 100%.

I wouldn't know about rigging up an additional cooling system, but, you might be going in realms and "solutions" that simply aren't worth it in regard to time, money, technical stuff.

It is probably the best to make a new sets of darks for a new temperature. And use that to get rid of noise as far as you can.
Personally that's why I use 2 different settings. 1 for summer at -10 degrees C. and 1 for winter at -20 degrees C.
with 2 separate libraries of darks and such. Or, go for a setting that it can do all year round.

Sound like I’ll be shooting all new darks! Thanks for the info!

I never gave it a thought that it was Celsius and not Fahrenheit with the -35 so thats my bad! Its all Fahrenheit here in the states.

Sorry for the bad thread here!

Jonathan Young

Jun 5, 2021 · Edited: Jun 5, 2021

Hello Dale,

I am also in Michigan and I have found there is no way around having two sets : “summer” settings and “winter” settings. 0C is the summer and -15C in the winter. Renew calibrations frames as needed… however it is best to retake these every 6 months anyway. Just pick a cloudy night and go along as usual.

Helpful

Dale Penkala

Topic starter

Jun 5, 2021

Jonathan Young:
Hello Dale,

I am also in Michigan and I have found there is no way around having two sets : “summer” settings and “winter” settings. 0C is the summer and -15C in the winter. Renew calibrations frames as needed... however it is best to retake these every 6 months anyway. Just pick a cloudy night and go along as usual.

Hello Jonathan,
Howdy Michigander!
Ya I’m thinking I’m going to need to do that too in fact just opened up the observatory for a tonight’s run. I just for grins checked to see how cool I could get it down to with the outside temp being 87º and I could only get it down to -7º f so I’m going to shoot for -5º here in an hour or so and start my flats and darks.

Nice to meet you btw!

Dale

Dale Penkala

Topic starter

Jun 5, 2021

I never go below -10°C with my ASI1600MM Pro both because I want to stretch the cooler life as much as possible and because the reduction of the noise is hardly tangible below this temperature, especially in case of pretty consistent integration times.

Bests

Thanks Roberto for the info! Ya its looking like I’m going to be shooting another set of darks and they will be much warmer than I normally shoot at.

Thanks!
Dale

AstroBob

Jun 15, 2021

If your camera doesn't have a strong cooler, (regardless of the max cooling limit) i.e, it takes a long time to reach the desired temp, one thing you can try is "step cooling". If you want to reach -10, then first cool to -5, and wait till the temp becomes stable for awhile, and then try going to the target temp. Less stress on the system that way. Works for me sometimes, with certain cameras.

Helpful Concise

Dale Penkala

Topic starter

Jun 15, 2021

If your camera doesn't have a strong cooler, (regardless of the max cooling limit) i.e, it takes a long time to reach the desired temp, one thing you can try is "step cooling". If you want to reach -10, then first cool to -5, and wait till the temp becomes stable for awhile, and then try going to the target temp. Less stress on the system that way. Works for me sometimes, with certain cameras.

Thanks for your reply. So far I have just shot at -5 and called them Summer Flats. -5 is a very easy temp for my camera to get to.

Dale