ZWO AM5 or AZ EQ6 Pro for Remote Telescope Hosting

Topic starter

Feb 5, 2024

Hi Forum,

I need your advice. After a long streak of consistent bad weather, this year I made the decision to go remote in Spain and made a reservation for a spot in a remote hosting facility. Now I am planning the equipment I will install.

I already own an AM5 and it works quite well, especially if I travel to the mountains. I track it on most of nights at an average of 0.6-7" RMS which is plenty good for my pixelresolution of 1.4"/px. Sometimes, and I dont know if it depends on flimsy tripod, sky location or seeing, the guiding will go up to 1"RMS.

Now, I am planning on also installing a piggy bag Samyang lens on top and I will be much closer to 15-16kg payload which I could not test yet, since I don't have a counterweight at the moment.

Would you think that on a remote setting on a pier, an AM5 is as reliable as a tried and tested EQ6-R Pro? Is there something I am not considering in such a setting?

Thanks for the advice!

CS
David

Engaging

Frédéric Ruciak

Feb 5, 2024

Hi David,
I own both mounts. I have improved my EQ6R pro with a new set of roller bearings on both axis and fine tuning of everything that can be tuned (excellent ressources on the internet, I can tell you where I found good ones). Balancing the mount is so easy and the tracking is smooth so easy to guide reliably. I bought an AM5 to be sure to fly with it as a cabin luggage :-) wich I do frequently. I use my AM5 without counterweight and I cannot speak of the AM5 balanced as a traditional equatorial mount. It is well built, looks great for sure and I am reasonably satisfied considering the huge avantage of portability.

Starting with the conclusion, IMO best choice for remote permanent setup among EQ6R and AM5: EQ6R. If you can enlarge the choice, a classic/centered equatorial mount with no backlash design in the price tag of 4k € (not speaking of buying some super premium mount if you win the super Loto).

The rationale:
As you know the guiding strategy for AM5 is quite different (shorter exposures,…) but more important for me, the stability is not as good as with a traditional eq mount. Sometimes it goes jerky and you loose frames limiting de factor your exposure time window. There is no way to smooth the tracking like with a permanent periodic error correction as for the EQ6R and others. There is much less flexibility with parking and homing as with others (at least EQ6R with Eqmod). Balancing the setup is not as simple as with other mount either. These are acceptable cons when you portability is a must but when it's not…
Regarding my specific EQ6R, the trade off between no binding and limited backlash is not as good as I would like due to the eccentricity/imprecision of the RA/DEC /worm gear, (too much backash in dec) and I would favor a no backlash design like the one of Ioptron. When the remote project will arrive I will sell both mounts to reinvest in an classic/centered eq mount in the price tag of 4k€ and keep my dear obsession telescopes classic 15 and UC22 inches ;-)
Not sure it helps you. Frédéric

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Dcolam

Topic starter

Feb 7, 2024

Hi Frédéric,

Thanks for your insights.

The stability won't be an issue with the AM5 since it will be installed on a pier at the remote observatory. So it is a pitty I won't get to test that particular setup before installation.

I will keep you updated how the performance of the AM5 will be with a counterweight and all equipment installed

(if you are interested)

Yes, having an heavy duty center balanced mount is surely also attractive however I don't feel like to sell my AM5 yet. It is an impressive little mount.

best,
David

Pascal Le Clech

Feb 7, 2024 · Edited: Feb 7, 2024

Hi Frédéric,

Thanks for your insights.

The stability won't be an issue with the AM5 since it will be installed on a pier at the remote observatory. So it is a pitty I won't get to test that particular setup before installation.

I will keep you updated how the performance of the AM5 will be with a counterweight and all equipment installed (if you are interested)

Yes, having an heavy duty center balanced mount is surely also attractive however I don't feel like to sell my AM5 yet. It is an impressive little mount.

best,
David

I aim to get a 15-16kg equipment on my AM5 so your feedback will be really useful. Now with a 10kg equipment I am at 0.4'' arc precision for guiding on a 1 second guiding strategy.

Mickaelle (kaelig)

Feb 7, 2024

I have got a CGEM2 (equivalent to an EQ6) and now I have an AM5 mount. If you need to mount & unmount the setup, go in the landscape, AM5 is the best choice: light weight, good accuracy, good guiding.

If I make an observatory, I will use an EQ6R enhanced. It will offer best performance & do not request guiding for performance.

Concise

Frédéric Ruciak

Feb 7, 2024

Hi David,
yes I am interested by your feedbacks regarding how the mount behaves with heavy duty as well as counterweight.
And also about your learnings and performance regarding guiding. I have to say that it was not obvious for to get the result I have right now and that it seems to me that they are highly dependent on small details.
For example I use now an evoguide50 with flattener, well focused, an altair GP3 290M BUT I have to use the Ascom driver offering 12bit depth with PHD2, multiple stars guiding and 0.5 to 0.75s exposure leading to a period of 1 to 1.25s guiding correction pulses. And there is no way to let it work properly with the direct connection to PHD2 with the Altair driver proposed by PHD2 working only with 8bit depth. For a reason that seems obscur to me the centroid of stars are moving so much that the guiding is terrible.
CS, Frédéric

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Dcolam

Topic starter

Feb 7, 2024

That is kinda weird. For me, the guiding was pretty straightforward. But I use an OAG and an ASI120mm mini.

As far as the settings go, I followed a guide from a ZWO forum (from a guy named Chen, I dont have the link anymore, but you can search for it) and I set the time to 1s exposures, aggressivness to around 0.5 and pulses to around 300-500 depending on the night and I get quite nice results with that. Typically in the range of 0.6-0.7" and depending on the skylocation even down to 0.3-0.4"RMS.

12bit should be a must anyways, there is no dynamic range at 8bit. I have no experience with the Altair guide scopes but I can tell you that PHD2 does not care about my star shapes, since I get sometimes really bad ones (OAG distorts them sometimes).

Good luck,
David

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Tom Boyd

Feb 7, 2024

Pascal Le Clech:
I aim to get a 15-16kg equipment on my AM5 so your feedback will be really useful. Now with a 10kg equipment I am at 0.4'' arc precision for guiding on a 1 second guiding strategy.

I use the AM5 with WO FLT132, with counterweight obviously. My total rig runs at just under 15kg. I consistently get between .5" and .75" RMS with this setup, and that's using the TC40 tripod with a 9kg battery in the bag as an additional tripod weight. I suspect you could do better on a fixed pier...

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Frédéric Ruciak

Feb 7, 2024

Hi Tom,
Can you tell me if besides the 0.5 to 0.75" RMS you sometimes like a crazy time window during which the mount has high amplitude deviation like 2- 2.5 arcsec east then west as if it was oscillating and then everything becomes smooth and it goes down again but periodically you have a crazy window?

Dcolam

Topic starter

Feb 7, 2024

Hi Frédéric,

I don't get those. Sometimes I have 1-2" spikes but it recovers very quickly. I literally never had to throw away any subs (at least at my focal length).
Cheers

Tom Boyd

Feb 7, 2024

Frédéric Ruciak:
Hi Tom,
Can you tell me if besides the 0.5 to 0.75" RMS you sometimes like a crazy time window during which the mount has high amplitude deviation like 2- 2.5 arcsec east then west as if it was oscillating and then everything becomes smooth and it goes down again but periodically you have a crazy window?

Frédéric,

No. I haven't seen that. I will say, however, that my rig is very sensitive to wind - so, any breeze drives the RMS through the roof...

Frédéric Ruciak

Feb 7, 2024

I didn't think of the wind effect, you are right, I will pay more attention when it gets crazy.
Thanks, Frédéric

Benoit SAINTOT

Feb 7, 2024

I owned an Azeq6, and now own a Mach1 and an Am5.

Both my Azeq6 and my Am5 give me around 0,6" guiding . My Mach1 0,3"

I don't really bother about sometimes high spikes for the Am5 ( actually it happened maybe once in several nights ..)
But one thing to consider also is the maintenance .
For sure, at first, we might think the Am5 main purpose is to be carried easily , so not really intended for a permanent setup ..
But, one thing to consider, is that this mount has virtually no maintenance, compared to a Eq6 you will have to fine tune in between summer and winter to adjust the play, belt tension etc … If you have someone able to do this for you, that's ok. But if not, the AM5 is a no brainer .
As it will be permanent, you might seriously consider mounting the counterweight bar, it will only be beneficial for the setup.

But, I would also consider investing in a premium heavy mount, second hand if you can. This way you will be able to upgrade your setup with maybe longer focal length, something for what the AM5 is not really made. You can get pretty decent seeing lower than 1" in Spain, maybe you will some day feel like taking benefit of this .

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