Beta Testing ASG Electronic Assisted Tilt (EAT) Device

Daniel Carter:
Wow...I look forward to seeing your results Chris! I just wish I could get a nice clear sky one night here in Alabama. Sending a scope to New Mexico was a great choice and I wish I had done it sooner!

I had a couple of nights to play around with it, and so far so good!  I was running ASTAP and making adjustments from inside my living room... mind you it was 20 degrees F outside, so really nice to not need to go out every 10 minutes to make an adjustment. 

I'm really looking forward to more testing, but I was having some optical issues that I need to sort out.  So far it;s been a pleasure to play with!

Tom Dinneen:
I’ve been dreaming about something like this. Should be relatively straightforward  for developer to integrate with Aberation Inspector to automate tilt and backfocus adjustment. The hard work is done. Just need to calibrate device, send adjustments / instructions and iterate. Now just need someone to do the same for secondary mirrors and Innovations Foresight to integrate that with SkyWave.

I suspect that this is the future for devices like this once they hit the market.  I would ABSOLUTELY love this to be an automated process.  I don't know what the projected retail price is on this EAT device, no doubt it will not be cheap, but if it could eventually be automated it would add significant value to that price tag.  I, for one, would much rather image than tinker with tilt....

Chris White- Overcast Observatory:

Tom Dinneen:
I’ve been dreaming about something like this. Should be relatively straightforward  for developer to integrate with Aberation Inspector to automate tilt and backfocus adjustment. The hard work is done. Just need to calibrate device, send adjustments / instructions and iterate. Now just need someone to do the same for secondary mirrors and Innovations Foresight to integrate that with SkyWave.

I suspect that this is the future for devices like this once they hit the market.  I would ABSOLUTELY love this to be an automated process.  I don't know what the projected retail price is on this EAT device, no doubt it will not be cheap, but if it could eventually be automated it would add significant value to that price tag.  I, for one, would much rather image than tinker with tilt....

Even better would be a kit to upgrade existing Photon Cages with motors. Might not be achievable but one can dream. I suspect in 2-3 years or less given the rate of progress the last 2-3 years that tilt adjustment will be an automated process. Ditto mass production scopes coming with motorised / automated collimation within the next 5 (likely 2-3 years as well). Only a matter of when not if. I’m all for imaging as well. Adjusting tilt and collimation is fun up to a point and I’m well past that point. 

Tom

Oh wow, this device seems super interesting! Would love to up-level my manual photon cage with this one at some point!

Ani

Await the outcome, I'd kill for someone to finally produce a tilt mechanism that doesn't involve screwdrivers or fingers.

Josh Jones:
I will say that this is not anything like the mechanical ones.  It in no way will 'upgrade' or just 'add motors' to it, it's a completely different beast, but we are making it so it's compatible with all our ASG filter sliders.  It also has M54 threaded aperture, common 6 bolt EFW pattern on 62mm diameter... I also added 4 of the 6 x 99mm bolt pattern if you wanted to bolt it to the ZWO 50x50 filter wheel.  I think that is a pretty good deal on that size EFW.  So compatibility wise it has a ton of mountable features...

Thanks for chiming in Josh.  It looks like I have some more testing opportunities over the next few nights.  I currently have it setup on the 110 with the field flattener.  The reducer needed to go back for service.   I may have a chance to set this up on my epsilon.  I reached out to OPTEC to see where they were with the Hercules (small format focuser/rotator) as my epsilon is in pieces right now and when I set it back up I'd like to upgrade to it.  If it is a ways out, I'll set it back up with the LEO, and get some superfast scope testing done with the EAT. 

Being winter in Vermont, I dont generally like testing things.... but in this case, I can do it all from my warm living room.  :-)

I'm using it right now.  Currently 20C in my living room and -10C outside. 

One thing that is important to note is that unlike a manual tilt device, when you make an adjustment with the EAT you do not impact your backspacing at all.  If you increase spacing on a specific corner, the opposite corner does an inverse movement. Mechanically, it has to, but the practical benefit is that your backspacing is unchanged.  So you can make all the corner adjustments you want, and spacing stays the same.

With a manual (4 point) device, this is also the case if you loosen the opposite corner, however I was never confident that I could perfectly achieve this.  Essentially, you are pivoting the device on the locked corners, but it is balance between being too tight and not tight enough.

With a manual (3 point) device, you are definitely impacting your backspacing. 

For very fast scopes, this can be an issue.  With my epsilon 0.1mm makes a difference!

Last night I had a chance to test the EAT motorized tilt device on Epsi.  My sky conditions were not very good with seeing around 2.8" and poor transparency. Under better conditions star aberrations are more pronounced so may require more refinement... I would call my collimation an 8/10 so that can be improved as well.  I was rushing over the last couple of days to install the focuser and change mirror spacing, so it's a quick and dirty on the collimation. 

I previously tested EAT on a refractor.  Moving it to the epsi I thought it was going to be a bit of a torture test, but I was wrong.  The device handled it easily and adjustments produced expected results and were repeatable. 

I ran ASTAP Hyperbolic Curve Analysis 9 times over the course of 75 minutes.  7 of those runs resulted in tilt adjustments and 2 of them with backspacing adjustments.  I ended up maxing out the travel of the EAT as I was refining backspacing so I need to put a 1mm shim in my image train to continue refining spacing, but this result is quite good after only 75 minutes of tinkering. 

I'll add that I did all of my tinkering while reclined on my couch in my living room sipping a beverage with my feet up on the coffee table. 

Here is the Before Image without any tilt or spacing refinement.  As you can see there is clearly a spacing and tilt issue.  High res file here for pixel peepers:
https://www.astrobin.com/1yyvfq/0/



Here is the After Image after making 9 adjustments following the guidance of ASTAP Hyperbolic Curve Analysis:
https://www.astrobin.com/1yyvfq/B/



There is still some residual error to refine but visually the result is very good, especially considering this is a full frame chip on an ultra-fast telescope.  I'll be adding a shim and taking this to the next level once I get another clear night.

I did a bit of spacing testing of the device itself.  Once I refined tilt I ran the device in and out across about 1mm of travel range.  It held my tilt adjustments perfectly.  I am extremely impressed with this device.  In the past I would not continue refining this result.  I'd be happy with it and leave it alone.  Now, I'm excited to see just what this system is capable of delivering for star quality!  One more step on the path to remote deployment!

Here is a slightly better sub:  https://www.astrobin.com/1yyvfq/E/

Andy:
Any I’m updates! Super interested in the progress of this game-changing tech.

What would you like to know?  I have one in new mexico on a remote scope that is 2500 miles away. Works great.

Andy:
I’m please to hear. Any chance it will be available to consumers?

Andy:  So we are selling some here and there, just email us from out website at www.asgastronomy.com and we'll reach out to you with info.  We are sort of soft launching them right now and have handful of units out there already.    Happy to discuss over email.

As for just overall experience with the units I have seen and my own experience running mine in a RASA 11 F/2.2 scope, semi-remotely from my living room while the scope is about 60 feet outside...  it's been good

I am able to get very flat fields and round stars at F/2 and with consistent results.  Full frame sensor makes it a pleasure to really get the most out of a scope and FOV at that speed.  Through testing, I think one recommendation is to run it on a powerbox like a pegasus UPBv2 or UPBv3 so that the power can be turned on/off when not making adjustments, thus motors do not output any unnecessary heat and saves on longevity.

Specs right now are about .6 micron adjustments in diagonal tilts and 1.8 microns for backfocus adjustments.  You can do mini backfocus adjustments, I would say within a 1mm to 1.5mm gap range.  It' not made to run in and out 5-10mm at all, but allows you to really refine it is the idea.  Head weight around camera is only 25 ounces, and the remote box can be mounted on a losmandy rail or anywhere, it's really light weight.  I hang it off my RASA 11 no problem.

My real world experience... I fire it up maybe every couple weeks or month to just check, make a micro adjustment here and there, then run it for a while.  I don't think it needs to be run every night, but just something to check once a week or every few and so far mine has worked good this way for a full year or so.