Cfeastside avatar
I guess M45 is popular right now, lol!  I'd be interested in what you all think of my image with regards to the following:
  1. overall color balance? is it too blue overall?
  2. star shape and are the primary stars too hot or blown out?
  3. too dark of a bg?


first time imaging pleiades.  i'm just getting going in AP but have been doing landscape photography for quite awhile and am familiar with post processing for tonality and such for those images.  still trying to get a feel for AP though.

this image:canon 6d unmoded, no filters
Lights 60x90s unguided
Darks. 40
no flats or bias frames
WO GT81 with flat 6aiii
bortle 4 backyard
APP and PSthanks!
Brian Meyerberg avatar
what's there to critique?    No Guiding, No modded camera, no Filters! Stars don't look blown out. These are naturally bright stars. Maybe just a tad noisey. Color is perfect. I think you did a great job.
Cfeastside avatar
thank you Brian!  i guess i keep thinking the orange colored stars should have a bit more prominence in the image.  interesting comment about the noise.  something to keep an eye on.  perhaps stretching too much?  thanks for your thoughts!
Alan Brunelle avatar
Only comment would be color.  But color is a personal choice, both hue and saturation.  Unless you are trying to convey color accurately.  Have you looked through an eyepiece at the stars in this cluster?  I would say yours is skewed too blue.  I think saturation is even more subjective. Again your choice.

If you want accuracy, you can try a photometric color calibration, such as found in Pixinsight.  Also look at the many wonderful posts on this site of the Pleiades.  Typically the more diffuse nebulosity at the top of your image has some reddish tones and looks whiter.  If you adjust, I think you will find that you will also see a better balance in your stars as well.
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Wei-Hao Wang avatar
I would say this is a nice shot as is.

You can't make the background much brighter, as this will also bring out the noise.  To prevent noise from coming out, one way is to apply noise reduction in the post processing.  It will make the image look overally smoother, but can't really help to bring out much faint nebulas in the background.  To really beat down the noise, you will need 2x or even 4x more integration.

My major critique would be framing.  Your framing is too far north (downward in your current orientation), making the southern edge of your frame touching the souther part of the reflection nebulas.  If you move your framing a bit south, the overall balance of the image would be much better.  A bit to the west (left in your orientation) will also help to balance too.
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Taddeuccis avatar
All in all a good image. The major criticism is the noisy background, which affects the smoothness.  The stars are ok: the shape is pretty good and the colors are nice; It is a bit out of focus, but you don't notice It until you zoom close. About the color of the nebulas, i think that overall It is a bit too much blue. You should mask the stars to work on the nebulas colors, and viceversa. All in all; great picture, i love It. CS
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Cfeastside avatar
Thank you all for your thoughtful comments.  I definitely added a lot of blue during editing and saw that after posting.  I didnt pic up on the noise.  Will add more time on this one.  I have looked at this visually but it has been a couple months.
Cfeastside avatar
All in all a good image. The major criticism is the noisy background, which affects the smoothness.  The stars are ok: the shape is pretty good and the colors are nice; It is a bit out of focus, but you don't notice It until you zoom close. About the color of the nebulas, i think that overall It is a bit too much blue. You should mask the stars to work on the nebulas colors, and viceversa. All in all; great picture, i love It. CS

Regarding focus, is it off a bit or just needing a bit more sharpening?
Taddeuccis avatar
I think It is off a bit, but all in all It doesn't affect the image, just on the stars It is visible
Alan Brunelle avatar
Regarding color.  I sometimes see presentations here that are clearly off and I think it is because we work on computer monitors that do not always present color accurately.  So it would be worth calibrating your monitor to some standard.  Then if someone complains about color in your shots, you will be confident that it is their monitor that is uncalibrated.

Also, if you are working on your shots in strong light or odd lighting falling on your monitor, it can throw off the final balance.  For me, I have to use glasses to prevent strain on my eyes and the lenses are tinted brownish to reduce blue light strain.  So from time to time, I will switch to my clear glasses to check and be sure.  I have gotten comments on some of my early work that they looked too green, and that was the reason.

As far as focus issues mentioned, it is always better to be in focus than to have to sharpen stars in post processing.  But even still, if you are at best focus for your rig, you can still reduce star size by various means if you want to really make them tack sharp.

And I agree with everyone, nice photo!
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Cfeastside avatar
revised the orientation, crop, and color balance. applied a bit of remove noise in PS.
Cfeastside avatar
@Alan
yes, i'm using a calibrated monitor.  i definitely juiced up the blues too much.  plus looking at the image like that for too long the mind easily adapts.

i was having a hard time with focusing the bahtinov image on screen in backyard eos.  i took an image with the bahtinov in place, see image, and the diffraction spikes looked right.  i guess i should've looked more closely at the image.  it is off a bit.  easier to see in the bg stars vs the brighter one i was focusing on.  glad you guys caught that!  
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Brian Meyerberg avatar
Your new crop is better. I have to say after reading all the critiques I have admit it’s all subjective. You have a great image there imho, maybe just needs a little noise reduction. (Lately I’m on a noise reduction frenzy) 😂
Harald Tomesch avatar
Thanks for a super image - the kind that makes me want to achieve even better photos… As I read the thread my question would be about color (colour).  Is the goal to achieve "ART" through the manipulation of the histogram and post image editing or is the goal to use filters to discover the elements of nature present in the star systems themselves?  Remember I am really new to this - so I am sponge about the replies you share with each other!  I like the comment of "framing" as in all art forms it is a matter of enhancing the subject.  I like the comment about the typical color of the other systems in the photo.  I like the second version much better!  Super!  Thank you!
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Steve Solon avatar
I certainly agree with all the above comments – beautiful color, etc. The subject stars might stand a little less sharpening or deconvolution so they don't look so articulate. As far as noise, I've been using DeNoise AI from Topaz labs - a wonderful tool for removing noise from our images. The de-noising and sharpening parameters are fully adjustable, so there's no concern about over-doing things. Also, I'd like to re-emphasize what was mentioned above - you're the artist, so what looks good and satisfying to you shouldn't matter to anyone else. Criticism should either be constructive or non-existent. Very well done image, mate.
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Cfeastside avatar
thank you all again for the thoughtful comments.  I'm really glad i posted this as it has been very helpful!

a little bg about me, i'm an amateur landscape photographer with a lots of experience in that relm.  Don't consider my self a power PS and LR user but know my way around those programs enough to get the look and feel to my landscape images.  With regards to software for post processing Astro photos i'm still learning the ins and outs.  I'm using APP which i find easy to use, or at least get pretty good results right out the gate.  just need to further understand the finer details, like sharpening for instance.  As of now i'm assuming editing in APP is similar to editing a raw file in LR.  I'm assuming a fit file is similar to a raw file and that it needs a little bit of sharpening to remove the antialiasing filter effects?  just not sure how much to apply yet in APP before saving to a TIFF file for further PS touch ups with layer masks etc.

Yep, very familiar with all this being subjective and how online critique forums work.  Thanks for the reassure though!

with regards to the noise in the image.  are all the little fine points of light stars or are some of them noise/bad pixels?  see pic below.  APP is applying a bad pixel map and this from what i understand should be getting rid of hot/cold pixels.  but is it doing enough i wonder?
Cfeastside avatar
Harald Tomesch:
Thanks for a super image - the kind that makes me want to achieve even better photos... As I read the thread my question would be about color (colour).  Is the goal to achieve "ART" through the manipulation of the histogram and post image editing or is the goal to use filters to discover the elements of nature present in the star systems themselves?  Remember I am really new to this - so I am sponge about the replies you share with each other!  I like the comment of "framing" as in all art forms it is a matter of enhancing the subject.  I like the comment about the typical color of the other systems in the photo.  I like the second version much better!  Super!  Thank you!


thanks Harald for your thoughts and follow.  Re intent and presentation.  i don't know yet, still trying to figure it out, lol!.  This is only like my fifth or sixth astro pic and first on M45.  in the world of landscape photography i tend not to over saturate color and keep to a more natural look so to speak.  At least with regards to color photos.  With regards to AP i'm not sure really how to best convey color.  I do look around at other's take and representation as i edit.  though with this one i definitely over did the blues which i picked up on after posting of course!
dkamen avatar
Looks very good to me.
John R Carter, Sr. avatar
  • overall color balance? is it too blue overall?

Some might think so. This is purely subjective. Artistry prevails.
  • star shape and are the primary stars too hot or blown out?

Again, this is subjective. Some might prefer muted stars to bring attention to the blue haze.
  • too dark of a bg?

A totally black background might not be realistic in that it would remove faint detail. Finding the right mix of background noise that contains some faint nebulosity might be more appealing. Using Blur to smooth out the background also removes detail in the nebulosity. It might be better to use a star mask to remove the stars to allow processing the nebulosity without affecting the stars and vice-versa.

Overall, you have a great photo there. And you have retained the star colors quite well.
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