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Solar Imaging - is it possible to build a plan that doesn't plate solve?

ZWO ASIAIR Plus William Optics Redcat 51 ZWO ASI2600MC Pro Eclipse
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Jason Coon avatar
Jason Coon avatar
I'm preparing for the April 8th Total Solar Eclipse.  One of the rigs I'm planning to bring is a RedCAt51, ASI2600MC Pro, AM3, and ASIAIR Plus.  I'll be in Dallas, and at that location totality will occur with the Sun at about 187' so I've already had to figure out how to track and avoid a meridian flip (start in the counter wight up position). 

Now I'm trying to built a capture plan that has the ASIAIR capturing images of specific exposure lengths at specific times during the event.  Plan mode lets you do that, but it also requires the coordinates of your target and when you execute the plan it will attempt to slew and plate solve the target.  Obviously this fails when the target is the Sun.

Is there a way to get a Plan to execute that doesn't require it to plate solve?

With AutoRun I can specify a series of different exposure length captures, but I can't specifiy their start times, it will just run one immediately after the other after I start it, sort of a dumb fire-and-forget.

Thoughts?
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Jason Coon avatar
Jason Coon avatar
I asked this same question on CN, and the ZWO Forums.  Seems like the implied answer is "no".

This is the new plan:  Use the ASIAIR only to power the camera and mount.  The mount will be positioned "west looking" and "counter weight up" and set to track at Solar speed so that it will track through the meridian without a flip.

The USB for the ASI2600MC Pro camera will be unplugged from the ASIAIR and instead plugged into a MiniPC (MeLE Quieter 4) running SharpCap.  I'll use the SharpCap Solar System Sequence Planner to build a plan that executes during the eclipse.  That plan will be based on the sequence plan that Eclipse Orchestrator produces for my Nikon Z6 running on a Sky Watcher Star Adventurer GTi, also running on a MiniPC, and the mount setup west looking and counter weight up.

In both cases, the mounts will be polar aligned the night before, but prior to the eclipse they will be manually positioned on the Sun and then just allowed to track at Solar speed (not sidereal) without any guiding or GoTo commands given.

While it sucks I have to introduce a MiniPC to get this to work, I also recognize this is an exceptional event and not core to what the ASIAIR is meant for, which is DSO imaging.
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Glenn Silverman avatar
Glenn Silverman avatar
Why complicate things. You don't really want to  automate imaging the solar eclipse. Just set up with a manual Alt-Az mount and equip your imaging rig with an inexpensive solar finder scope. Manually tracking is a no-brainer and you can just snap images at will  using nothing but  ASIStudio on a laptop.

Even if you did automate, at some point, when totality occurs, you'll have to manually remove your solar filter to capture the event.
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Jason Coon avatar
Jason Coon avatar
Oh wow.  Where to begin?  Yes, if you want to capture photos you absolutely want to automate.  This is a remarkable event, maybe once or twice in a lifetime, and it lasts only a precious few minutes.  The absolute last thing you want to be doing during the event it fiddling with equipment or looking at a screen.  If you don't want to automate, it's best not to take any photos at all, just enjoy the moment.

Automation, which requires rehearsal to get all the kinks worked out, is something I can start well before the event, so that during the event at most I might peak at a screen to ensure it's all working, but plenty of rehearsal prior should make even that unnecessary.

The Eclipse automation software scripts exposure times, ISO settings, F/stops, and it does so for all the specific events such as prior to totality, the Diamond Ring, Bailey's Beads, and the Corona during totality, and then all in reverse order after maximum, and it even calls out audio queues to know when to pull filters off and put them back on.  Moving the filters is really the only manual interaction I'll have once I kick off the automation the morning of the event.
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Dariusz Orlicz avatar
Dariusz Orlicz avatar
I struggle with the same problem and started to plan my own software to do that however with different goal and probably wont be ready before eclipse, I will be following this topic with high interest.
Chase Newtson avatar
Chase Newtson avatar
I am also looking at a similar situation, and I will also be in the Dallas area for the event.  I have decided to hopefully make it easier on me and leave my dedicated cam and telescope at home..  I will use a 150-600 lens and my good old Canon 850D.  Hope I'm making the right choice.. haha

This will be my 2nd total eclipse I have seen, with me not yet into photography back in 2017 when I travelled down to Missouri to witness that one, and I really hope I can pull off a decent photo.. I am very excited for this trip but also a bit nervous!
Willem Jan Drijfhout avatar
Willem Jan Drijfhout avatar
I'm not familiar with the ASIAIR, but it is a system derived from INDI/KStars/Ekos. 
In Ekos you can do both things in the scheduler:
- Have it slew to coordinates, but un-tick the 'Align' button
- Define a couple of sequences and have each start at a very precise time


Is there any 'under the hood' option in ASIAIR to look for this?
If not, you can download an Astroberry or Stellarmate image and put it on a Raspberry Pi. They are ready-to-use KStars/Ekos implementations.
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Jason Coon avatar
Jason Coon avatar
I've already moved past the ASIAIR in my planning.  It will still power the AM3 mount and ASI2600MC Pro camera, but the sequence will be managed by SharpCap running on my laptop.  I'm just unplugging the USB from the camera to the ASIAIR and plugging it in to my laptop instead. 

My Nikon Z6 will be managed by Eclipse Orchestrator running on a MeLE Quieter 3, and I used EO to generate a sequence with timings and exposures that match the f-ratio of the RedCat, so I'm using this sequence as the basis to do minor edits to get it into the format that the SharpCap sequencer needs.  They are both plain text so it's pretty easy to adapt one to the other.
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Glenn Silverman avatar
Glenn Silverman avatar
Jason,  Just a thought, but since you have a ZWO camera, why not just use ASIStudio and set exposure to "Auto". Will that automatically calculate an optimal gain and exposure setting based on the lighting conditions as each frame is shot, or does it just set those at the start of each capture session?
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Jason Coon avatar
Jason Coon avatar
Glenn Silverman:
Jason,  Just a thought, but since you have a ZWO camera, why not just use ASIStudio and set exposure to "Auto". Will that automatically calculate an optimal gain and exposure setting based on the lighting conditions as each frame is shot, or does it just set those at the start of each capture session?

I'm not familiar with ASIStudio.  The SharpCap sequencer gives total control, over timing when exposures occur, and what settings are used for each, including exposure length and gain.  The Eclipse Orchestrator software I'm using to manage my Nikon Z6 does a great job of producing a sequence timed to the specific phenomena of the Eclipse, such as C1 through C4, and the elements of Totality such as the Diamond Rings, and Bailey's Beads.  Each of those require their own specific exposure lengths, and EO will time them exactly and even allow for multiple shots to do exposure bracketing.

It's more complex, but I like the precise control it offers vs allowing the camera to auto determine exposure and gain during this rare event.
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Dave Cummins avatar
Dave Cummins avatar
I am practicing. I have a 91 mm refractor with ASI 2600MC Pro and ASIAIR. If I polar align the night before, I can slew to the Sun the next day with no problem. I turn the tracking rate from "Sidereal" to "Solar" and I turn of Autocentering on the slew. It will not try to platesolve. I was really impressed with how well it keeps the sun centered. That of course depends on a really good polar alignment the night before. Now I'm working on focus settings. That's a real challenge. And practicing on the Sun will only help with the pre-totality imaging. I've read that a crescent moon is a good object to work out focus (and exposure) for the totality times. I think a couple "Plans" in ASIAIR software could be used for exposure times, but we'll have to have a couple of focus settings written down to manually set during the events.  
What do you think?
I invite John Burkette to share thoughts. [I don't know how to tag someone here. I'll text John and point him to this.]
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Ed Dixon avatar
Ed Dixon avatar
There are various low cost tools that allow one to get a fairly good polar alignment in the middle of the day.  I use my iPhone and the app Polar Scope Align Pro.  That way your EQ mount can track the eclipse without much issue. 

I have a 3D printed iPhone holder that has a vixen tail.  I attach it to the mount, and then use the app to get an alignment.  It uses the iphone GPS and compass for this process and is quite accurate.  Once you are aligned, you can remove the iPhone and continue on with telescope and camera actions. This is an image of the setup in my kitchen:

 https://www.cloudynights.com/gallery/image/130754-gslhtpwgukur-1824x0-n1wmx-gxs/ 

You can read more about this app here:

 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/polar-scope-align-pro/id970161373 

There is a 3D design for the device on ThingIVerse here: 

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3108003 

There are also online firms that sell the device ready to go. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284280325758
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Ben avatar
Ben avatar
I'm with @Jason Coon ​​​​​, and while I do agree with some of you others that it does add a level of complexity, I'd rather have the complexity with the control in this particular set of circumstances. I find myself in a similar situation that Jason has; ASIAIR, ASI533MC Pro or Nikon Z6 (haven't decided, only 1 mount), SW HEQ5 EQ mount, ES 102ED scope. I've been researching a variety of different ways to go about it, and up until Jason's post I was going to be running simultaneous EO & AP tool programs from my laptop; a process I'm not familiar with and isn't terribly recommended either.

 Jason's approach is far less complicated than what mine would have been, leaving the very simple stuff to the ASIAIR, and allowing the more dedicated aspect of the Imaging to the parts that I can control directly with the specs coming from OE.

@Jason Coon ​​​​​​, 1 question/1 note for you:
1- from the research I've done, being only an astrophotographer for short few years now, the 250mm focal length seems small for an solar eclipse? Or am I missing something...which is why I'm asking  

2- one of the setup videos I reviewed from either a pro with the OE program or someone who contributed to the original software design recommended a change to the "Solar Radius at 1 AU" setting due to the official timing predictions being not quite right. Here is the link, starts at about 23:30.
https://youtu.be/qLHfURDO1YY?feature=shared
Jason Coon avatar
Jason Coon avatar
Hey @Ben , you are correct the native 250mm focal length of the RadCat51 is a bit small, however my effective focal length is 375mm because I'm pairing it with an ASI2600MC Pro that uses an APS-C sensor resulting in a 1.5x crop factor.  This should allow me to capture the full extent of the corona during Totality.  I'm looking at this setup as a backup for my Nikon Z6 at 500mm.

Thanks for the link, I'll take a look!
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Ben avatar
Ben avatar
@Jason Coon seems I haven't yet outgrown my Captain Obvious title 🤦 Tall about running into a brick wall of duh hahaha
Ben avatar
Ben avatar
@Jason Coon 
How's your EO plan coming for SharpCap? You getting any weird shutter speeds for the Baily's shots it plans out?
Ben avatar
Ben avatar
@Jason Coon 
Just saw your post in CloudyNights too, nice to know my own scripting wasn't terribly far off. You're "Steely-Eyed Missile Man" for sharing that out. Curious what you're using for your timing data source? I've based mine off of Xavier Jubier's own Google Eclipse Map (http://xjubier.free.fr/en/site_pages/solar_eclipses/TSE_2024_GoogleMapFull.html), based in UTC time. I'll be in the general Dallas area and to the east, so my 1st Contact start is approx 17:24 UTC.
Jason Coon avatar
Jason Coon avatar
Thank you!  I've used Xavier Jubier's eclipse map, which does a great job of showing the C1-C4 times, and I'm also using the Eclipse Simulator here
32.68786N 96.84182W - 2024 eclipse simulator | eclipse2024.org

With this simulator I can put in my exact location and simulate when the Diamond Ring and Baily's Beads occur.  So I'm using this to tweak my timings in EO and for SharpCap.
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