Best Session Management Software? - Forums

Topic starter

Dec 30, 2023

Good Day!

An often asked question I'm sure -

I'm already using an ASIAIR Plus on one of my rigs and, although I do like it, I am mostly running all devices manually on my remaining rigs (mostly because additional ASIAIR devices are not possible without all gear being from ZWO - a good and bad move on their part I think (for example why not just charge more for a non ZWO based version?)

My question (rather a request for user opinions); what has everyone found to be their favorite thorough and yet user friendly (for OS and NB) session management package? I'd rather go with a paid package, not "freeware" such as NINA. What do you find the most important feature(s) of such software?

I'm not concerned about PC details and I don't need dome control etc.

The Sky?
Maxim?
SGP ?
Others.?

Thanks for any advice in advance!

Pete

Linwood Ferguson

Dec 31, 2023

What is the best OTA?

What is the best type of pie?

Is the best pizza deep dish or thin crust?

There are differences in the various session managers for sure, but it is hard to answer the question out of the blue. You'll find fan-boys who will tell you only X is worth looking at, others who hate X. But if you want a real answer it probably helps to know what your priorities are.

As a simple example, I would say some emphasize simplicity but may not be as deep, some the opposite.

Some are free, some aren't (do you care?).

Some are … let's say venerable and stable, where as some are rapidly evolving and you get new stuff and possibly disruptive continually.

Some are windows only, some are more agnostic to OS.

You get the idea….

Linwood

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Ryan Faulkner

Dec 31, 2023

I've been very happy with StellarMate, running on an RPi 4. I haven't had good luck with its iPad app, so I usually remote in via VNC.

I wouldn't dismiss NINA just because it's "free." The UI is very good and it has a very large support base.

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Marc V

Dec 31, 2023

I use NINA with at my obsy. I use APT when I shoot with my dslr in the field. Both are free and have there + & - , but they do their job very well IMO!

Nicola Beltraminelli

Dec 31, 2023

Hi,

I also started with Asiair, but then I installed my scope remotely and Asiair cannot control everything. So I looked at different solutions and started with Sequence Generator Pro. The software is ok, but while I was testing it, I had the opportunity to discuss with an IT professional who introduced me to NINA. This software is extremely powerful and rather intuitive. I immediately switched to NINA and I entirely run all my setting from home while my scope is in Spain. You can also combine it with Stellarium, thus enabling you to plan your night by visualizing the target and defining the camera angle (that I handle with a rotator). Platesolve will then do the job to ensure the perfect positioning of the scope. Meridian Flip is also perfectly handled by NINA and once again, after flip platesolve will ensure the perfect positioning of the scope.
To make a long story short, NINA is a fantastic freeware. I wouldn't discard it simply because is free.
CS,
Nicola

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NAG

Dec 31, 2023 · Edited: Dec 31, 2023

The best one it's the one that gaves to you the best results and the one that you like to work most.

I tried SGP, Ekos, ACP (with Maxim) and for me, the best one without any doubts it's NINA.

Ekos (INDI) it's a great projct, but at the time that i tried it, at least for my setup, the stability was an issue.

NINA it's growing very fast, but in a stable a controlled way. I can do a full automatic session in my remote observatory, from open the roof untill turn off the computer and setup with the amazing Advanced Sequencer … and it's free

Monty Chandler

Dec 31, 2023

I've been using APT for the past 3 years. Runs on a NUC mounted on my rigs and managed remotely from the warmth of my office about 75 yards away. Running full versions of supported software is the way to go.

Linwood Ferguson

Dec 31, 2023

Ryan Faulkner:
I wouldn't dismiss NINA just because it's "free."

If that was aimed at my "do you care" it's the reverse sense -- there are a lot of people in this hobby who will pay $10,000 for gear and then balk at a $100 piece of software they need.

One can argue, today, that a lot of open source software is far better than paid software, especially in niche areas, since a small user base (compared to more mainline software) has difficulty supporting quality software work, and open source is often a labor of love that far exceeds the hours one could justify for fees.

I am also a NINA user, but I still argue one should make those decisions based on features and associated ecosystem moreso than cost, or popularity.

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dkamen

Dec 31, 2023

Well, NINA is pretty good, regardless of free/nonfree.

You might want to give Voyager a try although I think it is more shifted towards automation (especially "reactions" to errors and changing conditions), maybe a bit of an overkill if not operating a remote observatory.

dkamen

Dec 31, 2023

The only thing I am missing with NINA (compared to EKOS which I was using previously) is the inability to do planetary capturing and the lack of support for planets and stars in its databases. Wanna target NGCwhatever, no problemo. Wanna target Jupiter or μ-Cyg? Sorry, need to do it via Stellarium.

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Victor

Dec 31, 2023

Some of the pros and pixinsight developers swear by Nina.
I use the Asiair and as you said am locked into their equipment but for my first couple of years this was a reasonable and very comfortable way to get into
a very complex and otherwise confusing hobby.

Linwood Ferguson

Dec 31, 2023

The only thing I am missing with NINA (compared to EKOS which I was using previously) is the inability to do planetary capturing and the lack of support for planets and stars in its databases. Wanna target NGCwhatever, no problemo. Wanna target Jupiter or μ-Cyg? Sorry, need to do it via Stellarium.

The other thing NINA has been almost too successful at is to allow 3rd party plugins, which extend its capabilities. I have no idea if they help with that problem but orbitals, NEOCP, Lucky Imaging and probably more may address some of that.

I've said to the NINA folks I almost wish they had not included a star atlas in their software since Stellarium (and others) are so easy to integrate and frankly do a better job (e.g. better collection of images upon which to frame). It becomes a distraction.

The nice thing with software like NINA that is friendly to 3rd party tools is you can pick the best of breed for your particular needs, e.g. different guider software, different planetariums, different plate solvers. (Note I do not know how Voyager is in that regard, so not mentioning it is not indicating it lacks these abilities).

My impression is Voyager and NINA are the only two commonly used ones that are on a rapid development path, in particular MaximDL, APT, TSX, SGP all seem to be resting on their laurels -- whether this means they already do everything needed, or just lack developer enthusiasm, I leave to your imagination, but I think it does mean most tools what you see is what you will have for a long time, whereas NINA and Voyager are reacting and enhancing continually. This means they are more likely to accommodate innovation from other vendors, it also means they are more likely to impact your own setup as they release new versions, despite efforts to remain compatible.

One thing I LIKE about NINA that may be different in some commercial software is they take a pretty hard stance against manufacturers who are not standards compliant -- if you have product X and its ASCOM driver is broken (according to the standards), they tell you to push on the manufacturer, and decline to work around it in their code. Commercial software that is dependent on you buying it (and/or paying support) are more likely to give in, and kludge their software to work. This latter gives a pass to vendors who are lazy. OTOH of course it puts people who by hardware from lazy vendors in a bind.

Another aspect of all of these to consider is the support mechanism -- how much help can you get from the community, what is the "official" support channel, how do both of these channels react to questions (in particular to stupid questions, since we all go there eventually). It's hard to characterize these products' support ... let's call it philosophy.... without getting personal, but they do tend to be very different, and people making a choice should spend a few hours with each's support forums seeing how interactions occur, pick your flavor.

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andrea tasselli

Frequent contributor

Dec 31, 2023

The only thing I am missing with NINA (compared to EKOS which I was using previously) is the inability to do planetary capturing and the lack of support for planets and stars in its databases. Wanna target NGCwhatever, no problemo. Wanna target Jupiter or μ-Cyg? Sorry, need to do it via Stellarium.

I've always found that aspect very irksome in NINA to the point of utter irritation of not actually getting anything out.

Arun H

Frequent contributor

Dec 31, 2023 · Edited: Dec 31, 2023

As an SGP user, I found that migrating to NINA was straightforward and I do appreciate the plugins like Hocus Focus, 3PPA etc. I did try Voyager, and it has a pretty solid reputation. However, the interface was sufficiently different that I did not feel the return was worthwhile to make the investment to learn it and get used to it. I agree with the point that SGP is not bothering to advance and that’s good enough reason to move away from it.

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astroian

Dec 31, 2023

Hello AstroRBA,

For me, I find SGPro to work well. I tried both NINA and Voyager, but having gotten used to SGPro, the effort of figuring out new s/w far out weighed any gain there might have been. Neither was intuitive to me! I think all these programs have free trials, or are free, so try them out and see which one works for you.

Cheers,
Ian

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GergoB

Dec 31, 2023

NINA is fantastic. If my wife wants to go out to dinner for example, I can remotely power on my system from my phone and have it turn on camera cooling, dew heaters, open the flat panel at the appropriate time for slewing to target. With a camera rotator I can image multiple targets while sleeping and wake up to it completing flats based on trained brightness and exposure for all 7 filters. It'll also power off my equipment in the morning when the end sequence completes.
I'm not entirely sure if any of the other applications can do this level of automation to be honest. In my opinion NINA is far ahead of all other options.

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AstroRBA

Topic starter

Jan 1, 2024

NA is fantastic. If my wife wants to go out to dinner for example, I can remotely power on my system from my phone and have it turn on camera cooling, dew heaters, open the flat panel at the appropriate time for slewing to target. With a camera rotator I can image multiple targets while sleeping and wake up to it completing flats based on trained brightness and exposure for all 7 filters. It'll also power off my equipment in the morning when the end sequence completes.
I'm not entirely sure if any of the other applications can do this level of automation to be honest. In my opinion NINA is far ahead of all other options.
QUOTE

Wow: I hear this so much; why is it FREE !!??

Everyone reading this please consider what it would mean if what you did for a living was suddenly FREE via someone else ? Sorry, I just don't get this "free" philosophy

Linwood Ferguson

Jan 1, 2024

Everyone reading this please consider what it would mean if what you did for a living was suddenly FREE via someone else ? Sorry, I just don't get this "free" philosophy

Open Source is a thing. It's widespread. Some companies (Hi Oracle!) fight it tooth and nail, but it continues to grow. Linux. Heck, look in your documentation with almost every network device you get, and you'll see they used massive amounts of open source software in the thing you pay money for. There is almost nothing any more that does not contain large amounts... maybe a majority... of open source code.

Would people spending all this time and money on gear really buy NINA over (say) voyager over saving € 129?

Wait... did you know Astrobin is open source?

Arun H

Frequent contributor

Jan 1, 2024

PHD is open source. Should we stop using it because it isn’t paid software?

Anderl

Jan 1, 2024

NA is fantastic. If my wife wants to go out to dinner for example, I can remotely power on my system from my phone and have it turn on camera cooling, dew heaters, open the flat panel at the appropriate time for slewing to target. With a camera rotator I can image multiple targets while sleeping and wake up to it completing flats based on trained brightness and exposure for all 7 filters. It'll also power off my equipment in the morning when the end sequence completes.
I'm not entirely sure if any of the other applications can do this level of automation to be honest. In my opinion NINA is far ahead of all other options.
QUOTE

Wow: I hear this so much; why is it FREE !!??

Everyone reading this please consider what it would mean if what you did for a living was suddenly FREE via someone else ? Sorry, I just don't get this "free" philosophy

In germany (and probably elsewhere) a big part of the most valuable work for society is done for free (ehrenamt). Pls consider what it would mean if nobody would help each other anymore without getting money for it. Sad world.

Thomas Rox

Jan 1, 2024

Hi all and Happy New Year!

N.I.N.A. is perfect. And free, yes.

but if you like to give the Programmer Stefan Berg a favour, click here:

https://nighttime-imaging.eu/donate/

if you donate once or regularly, it will no longer be free for you. 😀

CS
Thomas

Dale Penkala

Jan 1, 2024

The software that works best for you and your application is the best one for YOU. NINA is an excellent software and I’ve used it when I first started out in imaging. At the time there wasn’t a “live stack” but from what I heard now there is a 3rd party plugin that allows you to see that which in my opinion is a great thing.

For me I absolutely love SharpCap Pro. I’m not a paid subscription software guy but for the $18 a year (or whatever it is now) I absolutely love it and I don’t see myself changing anytime soon unless something comes up that it doesn’t do or work well with.
There is a “FREE” version for those that want to try it 1st and if you decide you want it buy the “PRO” version you will get extra tools like the PA tool for one. Not that you need it but in the Pro version there are some nice tools that work very well IMHO, and one of them is the Polar Alignment Tool. In 2 minutes you can be PA as close as you want to be.

The other thing that is really good about SC is like N.I.N.A. there is a very good support system in place with their forum. Anytime I needed help with something you can post right on the forum and get an answer or you can even message Robin Glover (the writer) and he will reply back to you.

I use CDC for my “planetarium” software. This one is a “FREE” software and I use it on both my rigs and it integrates perfectly with my setup.

@Thomas Rox mentioned Happy New Year to all of you and wishing you all CLEAR SKIES!

Dale

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Bob Lockwood

Jan 1, 2024

Hi AstroRBA, and Happy New Year.

As per your question, I use Maxlm V6, TheSky6 and have TheSky Pro (aka SkyX), but haven't used it much yet. I use CCDStack for all pre-processing and stacking, Photoshop for all finial processing. I have Astrobin and I have my own website as well and have pretty much had no issues other than something I may have done that couldn't be corrected in just a few hours, and this has been for the last 20 years or so.

I have absolutely no issues with all the new free software that's out, but since I already have what I need, there's no reason to start over, everything just works.

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Michael J. Mangieri

Jan 1, 2024

Just to add to the comments about NINA … I moved to NINA from SGP about 2 years ago and never looked back. It does everything I want. Great software.

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Lynn K

Jan 1, 2024 · Edited: Jan 1, 2024

Hi AstroBRA. As a MaximDL user for 18 years, I CAN NOT recommend it. I still rely on certain features, but can not justify $500 new purchase for it.

What I still use and like in Maxim:
    1. Graphic User Interface, Position and resize almost any window.
2. Calibration, Stacking, LRGB Alignment and Digital Development Processing (DDP which I heavily depend on)
  3. Auto Guiding. Alot of control.
  4. Narrowband combine with filter weight controll

Why I don't recommend it: .
  1. Does not offer automated focus routins during scquence, such as time, temperature or FWFM activated.
  2. Does not offer options in LRGB, Ha,OIII,SII sequence, such as RRR, FOCUS,GGG,FOCUS,BBB,focus,HaHaHa…. and so on. Only does LRGB,Ha,OIII,SII or individually. Focus must be manually activated. It relies on expensive outdated FocusMax..
  3. Will not auto plate solve, must be done manually.
  4. Will not auto center, must be done manually.
  5. Will not auto adjust flat exposures, must be done manually.
  6. Most post processing tools are crude and impossible to get to work such as Deconvolution.
7. Planetarium and GoTo features are limited and outdated.
8. No multi star autoguiding

A few years ago Diffraction Limited (Maxim) bought out SBIG cameras. They now offer a Lite Maxim version with SBIG camera. I guess in hope the buyer will purchase the full version. Mostly expensive yearly upgrades are SBIG related. In my openion, Maxim has done the math and realized they cannot out do free N.I.N.A or SGP and come in at a reasonable price break. If they had continued to upgrade and offer all the feature of N.I.N.A. and SGP combined Plus the post processIing features of PixInsight, then they would be able to justify the $500 or even $600 price. But they choose to invest nothing and ride out the train untill the track ends.

I also use Sequence Generator Pro.
   What I likes about SGP:
1. Includes all the features that Maxim lacks listed above.
2. Can totally automate a session for more than one object.
3. Able to have some controll over GUI layout.

What I dislike about SGP
  1. Relies on free PHD guiding software that has to be loaded and viewed as a saperate application. Exceptable for free but not paid for software. .
  2. List settings in two separate locations and windows that look almost identical, but activate settings differently. Some permanent and some only for current session. Creates confusion and wrong settings. This can make it very difficult to fine certain settings. N.I.N.A. does a smilar thing.
  3. Most windows have too small of fonts to read with a laptop. Inadequate guiding controll in the SGP window.
  4. Inadequate controll in focus window.
  5. Clumsy preview image download stretch window. Very difficult to manually control. Limited automated review stretch options.
6. My main complaint with SGP is its limited ability to offer error widows with error explanations and offer corrections. It will pop up an error code and freeze. No clue as to why. It runs perfectly if you run it perfectly as its lininear programming Sequence requires. Vary from the sequence and it locks up. It doesn't have the ability to recognize your error , beep at you, and offer the correct stestep.As they say, "Get with the Program or Get out"

Lynn. K.

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