Use what I have or start fresh: Canon 5dsr + Telephoto vs. dedicated Astro Gear - Forums

Topic starter

Dec 11, 2020

I’m new to astrophotography (normally focus on landscape photography), and I’m trying to decide….

Should I try creating my first setup with daytime photo gear I already own, or should I invest a bit more on gear dedicated to astrophotography? My goal is to shoot deep space objects and nebula. I’m in love with the images I’ve seen of the Rosette Nebula, California Nebula, North American Nebula, Orion Nebula, Witches Finger, etc.

I currently use a non-modified Canon 5DSR for landscapes, but I feel like it’s quite noisy (especially compared to my prior 6D body, which I unfortunately sold a while ago). I have a Canon EF 100-400 F4.5-5.6L IS II USM telephoto lens, as well. I haven’t seen many examples of either piece of gear on these forums when I search. It’s limited.

Should I try working with the 5DSR and just buy a small tracking mount for a few hundred dollars and some filters using what I have. (In which case, what filters might help improve image quality with this setup)? Or, is it better to take that money and instead invest in a proper mount for heavier telescopes, with the intent to eventually buy a refractor APO (I’ve been looking at the Stellarvue 102mm or the Esprit 100) and a dedicated Astro camera like the ZWO ASI1600. I realize I’m on two extremes of the spectrum: spend a little, or spend a lot.

Since I use my 5DSR during the daytime for landscapes, I don’t want to remove the IR blocker. I also don’t want to invest hundreds of dollars in gear trying to make an unusable system usable if its more advantageous to start fresh and buy the right dedicated gear from the onset. I just want to spend WISELY so I’m not left with hundreds or thousands of dollars of unused gear. But, if it is possible to get great images from my Canon gear, I wouldn’t mind trying for minimal cost as a test.

I just can’t tell whether I can get the great shots I see on this site using the 5dsr + telephoto or whether it will be a lost cause of time and money trying to make it work.

Thoughts/recommendations?

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Morian

Dec 11, 2020

In my opinion go for a small skytracker mount and hit the rossetta ,M 78 , the embryo nebula and so on.
There is a lot of Dark nebulas to.

Howard Richard

Dec 11, 2020

I recommend that you at least try to get some images of the Milky Way or large targets like the Andromeda galaxy with the gear that you have. You will only need to get a small mount like the Star Adventurer and then learn about stacking software to deal with the noise inherent to using a DSLR. However, that way you can get some images done and then you can get a glimpse into the rabbit hole that you are trying to fall into.

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watcher

Dec 11, 2020

You will be surprised at how much you can do with your current equipment. I started with a 60D non-modified camera an a lens similar to yours, added a Skytracker mount and spent an entire summer shooting the lagoon nebula the trifid nebula and the moon. So much new software to master. So much new astronomy to master. There are steep learning curves all along the path, so you get started now with what you have. There will be plenty of time to spend money and money and money . This hobby is worse than a heroin addiction.

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astropical

Perfect post

Dec 12, 2020

Hello!

What you do need to purchase is a (portable) tracking mount with an Autoguide port (!important) on a sturdy tripod.
Should you later upgrade to an observatory grade mount, the portable mount will serve you well in the field.
But first I would use the optics I have while familiarizing myself with the few obstacles of deepsky imaging.

The initial targets you mentioned are ideal for 100mm to 400mm, and vice-versa, however, accurate tracking is essential,
in that you may soon wish to add a small guidescope with a little CMOS camera for autoguiding longer exposures
with a timer/shutter release as a DSLR is usually limited to 30 seconds max.

No high-end optics can outsmart a clean sky. Depending on your location you may need a light pollution filter
for your telelens (about +1/2 stop exposure compensation).

Purchasing is easy but selling gear can be painful. In any case, you can't fail capturing the celestrial wonders currently
on your honey list. My first attempt was the Orion M42, with no regrets, in spite of falling into the addiction trap.

Cheers
Robert

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Nadir Astro

Dec 12, 2020

Use what you already have, but buy good stable mount for current setup and possible future one. Because astrophotography starts from good tracking mount.

Megsgallery

Topic starter

Dec 13, 2020

Thanks to everyone who pitched in with a response! I am now on the path of looking for a good tracker with auto guide functionality.

Of the three, which one is smartest investment:

1. Ioptron Skyguider PRO
2. Skywatcher Star Adventurer 2i
3. Skip 1 & 2 and splurge for something that can take more weight later like Skywatcher HE5 or HE6

Thanks again for all the feedback!

The goal is to not be left with a bunch of gear sitting in a shelf because I realized I needed to upgrade to capture high quality images.

Respectful

Nadir Astro

Dec 13, 2020

Get HEQ5 Pro which can then handle 80-100mm APO or 150-200mm newtonian. Trackers are only good for light setup and can only track on one (R.A.) axis.

Concise

Bradley Watson

Dec 13, 2020

Its quite difficult to say as its not really known if you have extreme levels of enthusiasm for AP yet

. If you do as I did and I talk from recent experience as I am 7 months in, you should spend some money on an a German equatorial mount (GEM), this will allow you to track in RA and Dec, very important if you are serious about imaging (Kills field rotation). Use your DSLR for the time being, you can get some really good wide-field images with stock lenses and a body as you have.

Why a mount now? If you have enthusiasm for AP as I suspect you do, you will start thinking about smaller and fainter objects, which will get you thinking about different telescopes and the type you would like to use and the type of AP you want to start out doing in anger. This is a really important step as it dictates what type of telescope you want next BUT as you look at fainter and smaller objects, aperture and focal length will go up which means weight of the telescope goes up, therefore your mount becomes a limiting factor on telescope (a costly mistake I had made). Look at mounts that have payloads of around 15kgs…………. this will keep you going for many many years. You can start with a small refractor in time and move on to larger aperture/FL telescopes such as Reflectors, Newtonians, SCTs, RCs, etc and you wont need to spend any more money on a mount. You should be able to get crystal clear images.

In summary stick with you initial imaging gear but if you can splash out for a mount that will allow you to scale with your enthusiasm, do so.

Hope this helps.

CS
Brad

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Jérémie

Dec 13, 2020 · Edited: Dec 13, 2020

Hi @Megsgallery

Concerning the camera : indeed, you can start with your current daily gear equipment with no problem, like many astrophotographers do, and without modding the camera. If the passion bites you, you will probably upgrade later to cooled sensors in astrocameras anyway (that being said, DSLR are more autonomous in terms of power, so you also need to take into account from where you intend to shoot : backyard or travels ?

Concerning the mount : I agree with most of what has been said above. I personally own an iOptron Skyguider Pro. It has an autonomous battery, and therefore is very nice for traveling AND shooting in remote places without AC plugs.

I have used it with a Sony A99 DSLR and a 70/400 very cheap Celestron refractor, and upgraded to a quadruplet 71/347 with flat field and astrocamera. With the DSLR and lens you don’t need guiding until 1 min exposure. With the heavier setup, I have to guide anyway, and can do 1 to 2 min exposures at top without getting trails, due to changing Polar Alignement when aiming at the target... But with camera lenses mounted on my astro camera (Speedmaster 85mm f/1.2, Sigma 105mm f/2.8 etc...) it works like a charm at 4 minutes exposures.

You can check my page of pictures, everything has been shot with the Skyguider Pro, except the sun : https://www.astrobin.com/users/JO_FR_94/

The drawbacks are : you just have a motorized axis on right ascension (no dec) + finding your targets is quite time consuming as you don’t have GoTo functions + each time you adjust your aim, you are shaking the mount and losing a tiny bit of polar alignment ... and it reduces your max exposure time. Therefore, don’t expect to go further than 700mm (a 71/347mm with a barlow). It is made for larger fields of view.

Now, the new Star Adventurer has a motorized Dec axis as well ! I haven’t used it, but you should check that if you are looking for something you can bring with you in remote places without taking heavy batteries.
If that’s for backyard use mainly and only occasional travels, go for a heavier mount (if you are bitten by this passion, you may want larger aperture telescopes that are heavier, this will avoid you the hassle if reselling and buying a new one).

The mount is probably where you should spend the most of your money for deep sky imaging if you want long focal length and large apertures.

Hope this helps

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dkamen

Dec 13, 2020

[...]

I currently use a non-modified Canon 5DSR for landscapes, but I feel like it’s quite noisy (especially compared to my prior 6D body, which I unfortunately sold a while ago). I have a Canon EF 100-400 F4.5-5.6L IS II USM telephoto lens, as well. I haven’t seen many examples of either piece of gear on these forums when I search. It’s limited.

There is a pretty obvious explanation for that: the 5DSR is 50 megapixel that costs about 1300 euros new and the Canon EF 100-400 costs north of 2000 euros. Most people (me included) use technically inferior equipment that does their job (astrophotography) well enough at less than half the price.

If my use case is to print family photos and I start from zero, it makes perfect business sense that I would chose one of those tiny portable pocket photo printers which you just feed with photo paper, stream your photos straight from your phone using Bluetooth and get nice printouts without much fuss. They do this one thing I want, they do it well and they cost 150 dollars or less. But if I already own a PIXMA TS9150 which I normally use for professional printouts in size A4 things are quite different, aren't they? It is a no brainer to go for the PIXMA and just feed it with smaller photo paper

I will second what everybody else has said about the mount. If you want to be portable, the Star Adventurer Pro is a very good option (but on a sturdy mount). If you want backyard so setup and AC power are not a problem, you have multiple options with GoTo which will support your current gear just fine, and will allow you to add guiding and/or switch to completely different gear later. Either way, you should be researching the mount. You really are much better off than most beginners and even advanced users here with your camera and lens.

Cheers,
Dimitris

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Megsgallery

Topic starter

Dec 13, 2020

Thanks, Dimitris! Yes, I do have the gear from my landscape daytime work. I have made wall sized (5foot +) acrylics with the gear I have. It’s been a stab in the dark as to how this gear translates to Astro since there really are only limited images to sample from, and none of them exhibit the combo I have.

im narrowing down between skywatcher star adventurer 2i and HE5. It comes down to whether I want to be portable and start small or just use that money for the bigger splurge so I don’t have to try and sell something I bought but eventually upgraded. I live in a Bortle 8/9 area, so I’m thinking the portability may be the better investment to start so I can drive outside the light pollution.

but, seeing the images on here, and also having played around with post-processing the infrared monochrome images from Hubble, I’m pretty confident I will eventually want to invest in a cooled monochromatic camera and filter wheel to get Super crisp shots in different wavelengths.

will be researching and thinking some more and likely pull trigger in next 48 hrs to get started.

Brian Boyle

Dec 14, 2020

Hi Megsgallery,

I started off with "just" a Canon5D (unmodified) and a mount. I was not a professional photographer, but a professional astronomer!

I wrote up some of my lessons learned during my first six months in a recent Forum post, but suffice I have been bitten hard by the bug.

My first purchase was a Star Adventurer mount, and with my Canon5D and a variety of lens Rokinon 14mm, Canon 24-105mm and my favourite. 200mm I managed a large number of photos that I was pretty pleased with. Those are on my image gallery. The 200mm lens was particularly good for astrophotography, giving good images all the way out at f4.

In other words, I didn't have to make any sacrifices to my "daytime" kit, just the purchase of a Star Adventurer and a second-hand 200mm lens. That kept me going for about 3-4 mounts.

Since then its been two telescopes, ASIair, CMIS camera, auto guider and all sort of associated paraphernalia; Bahtinov masks, focal reducers. But to start you don't need much to take great photos!

Brian

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Brian Boyle

Dec 14, 2020

I would also add that I still can't get some of the great shots on this site… but it doesn't stop me trying.

Sure I don't have a large telescope on a remote facility, and no doubt having a monochrome camera with LRGB.Ha/OIII/SII will allow you to take the best photos possible. But you will still get some great ones that will impress your friends and family. Even with a unmoved DSLR and a few different focal lengths, you will have a really rewarding time.

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