What purchase would make the biggest 'upgrade' to my set-up? - Forums

Topic starter

Dec 21, 2023

I currently use:

- ZenithStar 61 APO doublet refractor (360 mm focal length; 61 mm aperture; f/5.9)
- ZenithStar Flat 61 field flattener
- Astro modified (full spectrum) Nikon D5300 DSLR
- ASIAIR Plus
- ZWO 120 mm guide camera/scope
- Star Watcher GTi Go-to mount
- Various accessories (dew heaters, bhatinov mask, etc…)

I have ~$2k to spend and would like to make the most impactful purchase. I was thinking of upgrading my DSLR to a ZWO ASI2600MC Pro cooled color camera. I am also thinking of upgrading the OTA itself, but I think the scope is quite good already at this focal ratio. I also already have another alt-az mount that if I get this new camera will allow me to use that other set-up with the Rokinon 135 mm that I have with the DSLR for widefield milky way stuff. As I have $2k to spend, I think going for the camera + an electronic auto-focuser might be the best to get the best bang for my buck.

I have also been eyeing the AM5 mount to allow me add bigger payloads in the future, but the guiding with my current set up is good (just limited to 11 lb payload).

My question is, if you were in my shoes, would you go for:

- New astro-specific camera (like the 2600MC pro)
- New mount (e.g., AM5)
- New OTA (e.g., upgrade to triplet/quadruplet/quintuplet?)
- Something else?

What would make the biggest improvement to my images? I am shooting from Long Island at Bortle 7 and use UV/IR cut filters as well as appropriate optolong dual narrowband filters when appropriate that work great.

Thanks for any input, you guys are the best!

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Bruce Donzanti

Dec 21, 2023

Best mount you can afford is always number 1. I am not familiar with the mount you have now but the AM5 is really good, especially as part of a travel setup.

Triplet refractor would be my next choice followed by the ASI2600 but this is a tossup. I could could the other way.

Good luck!

JanHeremans

Dec 21, 2023

The mount is the most important part of a setup. I would go for an harmonic mount , eg ZWO AM5.

You could also consider to wait and save some money for a monocamera. Disadvantage is that you will need to buy filters and a filterwheel.

Jon Bryan

Dec 21, 2023

I would say upgrading the mount, by a wide margin. I speak from experience. You really won't be able to take full advantage of a camera upgrade without it. Also speaking from experience.

Dan H. M.

Perfect post

Dec 21, 2023

An astro camera would go the furthest in improving image quality with your current setup. The 2600MC uses a much more advanced sensor and has the benefit of regulated cooling. You can get one used, or just buy the OGMA AP26CC (same chip) which is only $1425 and comes with various accessories like a tilter which you don't get with ZWO. They are also based in the US. Very new entrant into the astro market but initial impressions seem favorable.

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Jens

Dec 21, 2023

I had literally the same setup as you do.
From the mount to the Scope and guidescope.
The only difference is the Camera. I used the Canon 600D full spectrum.

I just upgraded the camera to a 2600mc pro and holy sh*t that made a huge difference.
The mount is quite limiting capacity wise but it is presice enough to get some really long exposure photos, which for now is all you need.
But the camera really changed a lot in my imaging.
When you go to my profile, the Rosette nebula was I think only about 40min.

What also helps a lot is a dual narrowand filter. I use the Optolong L-enhance and I have it on my scope pretty much all the time since I shoot from
my Balcony from a bigger town with plenty of light pollution.

I think with these two you'll see the biggest differences in your Data and capturing time. My next purchase will be the AM5 to get a heavier scope in the future.

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Doug Lozen

Dec 21, 2023

I currently use:

- ZenithStar 61 APO doublet refractor (360 mm focal length; 61 mm aperture; f/5.9)
- ZenithStar Flat 61 field flattener
- Astro modified (full spectrum) Nikon D5300 DSLR
- ASIAIR Plus
- ZWO 120 mm guide camera/scope
- Star Watcher GTi Go-to mount
- Various accessories (dew heaters, bhatinov mask, etc...)

I have ~$2k to spend and would like to make the most impactful purchase. I was thinking of upgrading my DSLR to a ZWO ASI2600MC Pro cooled color camera. I am also thinking of upgrading the OTA itself, but I think the scope is quite good already at this focal ratio. I also already have another alt-az mount that if I get this new camera will allow me to use that other set-up with the Rokinon 135 mm that I have with the DSLR for widefield milky way stuff. As I have $2k to spend, I think going for the camera + an electronic auto-focuser might be the best to get the best bang for my buck.

I have also been eyeing the AM5 mount to allow me add bigger payloads in the future, but the guiding with my current set up is good (just limited to 11 lb payload).

My question is, if you were in my shoes, would you go for:

- New astro-specific camera (like the 2600MC pro)
- New mount (e.g., AM5)
- New OTA (e.g., upgrade to triplet/quadruplet/quintuplet?)
- Something else?

What would make the biggest improvement to my images? I am shooting from Long Island at Bortle 7 and use UV/IR cut filters as well as appropriate optolong dual narrowband filters when appropriate that work great.

Thanks for any input, you guys are the best!

If your mount is trackingly resonably well, i.e. you are able to keep a large percentage of subframes, I think the best bang for the $2k buck is getting a cooled mono CMOS camera. You should be able to find a used camera with RGB filters in this price range.

andrea tasselli

Frequent contributor

Dec 21, 2023

Get a colour astro camera and decent filters to go with it.

Arun H

Frequent contributor

Perfect post

Dec 21, 2023 · Edited: Dec 21, 2023

The biggest upgrade would be a tank of gas to drive to a dark sky site and back. From looking at your images, you can get much more out of your current set up than you are. I would suggest that before spending a couple grand.

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Richard

Dec 21, 2023

I currently use:

- ZenithStar 61 APO doublet refractor (360 mm focal length; 61 mm aperture; f/5.9)
- ZenithStar Flat 61 field flattener
- Astro modified (full spectrum) Nikon D5300 DSLR
- ASIAIR Plus
- ZWO 120 mm guide camera/scope
- Star Watcher GTi Go-to mount
- Various accessories (dew heaters, bhatinov mask, etc...)

I have ~$2k to spend and would like to make the most impactful purchase. I was thinking of upgrading my DSLR to a ZWO ASI2600MC Pro cooled color camera. I am also thinking of upgrading the OTA itself, but I think the scope is quite good already at this focal ratio. I also already have another alt-az mount that if I get this new camera will allow me to use that other set-up with the Rokinon 135 mm that I have with the DSLR for widefield milky way stuff. As I have $2k to spend, I think going for the camera + an electronic auto-focuser might be the best to get the best bang for my buck.

I have also been eyeing the AM5 mount to allow me add bigger payloads in the future, but the guiding with my current set up is good (just limited to 11 lb payload).

My question is, if you were in my shoes, would you go for:

- New astro-specific camera (like the 2600MC pro)
- New mount (e.g., AM5)
- New OTA (e.g., upgrade to triplet/quadruplet/quintuplet?)
- Something else?

What would make the biggest improvement to my images? I am shooting from Long Island at Bortle 7 and use UV/IR cut filters as well as appropriate optolong dual narrowband filters when appropriate that work great.

Thanks for any input, you guys are the best!

It's a tough one because it depends where you would like to go in the long term.

If you choose the camera now, and decide in the future you want a heftier scope (like a Newtonian or larger aperture refractor) then you're going to need a bigger mount to take the extra payload.

Where do you image from? If you image from your back garden and are happy to leave your equipment set up outside, then I would recommend picking up an EQ6-R and a Telegizmos 365 cover. This mount will give you a lot of future proofing should you wish to upgrade you telescope in the future, plus having your equipment set up outside permenantly means you don't have to worry about setting up/stripping down each nice (which offsets the weight of it). On the other hand, if you shoot out in the field or live somewhere which makes it impractical to leave your telescope outside, then you could opt for the AM5 to make your setup a big more "grab and go" friendly.

If you do decide on the camera route, I would consider the option of the QHY268C (QHY version of ASI2600MC), mini-PC and focuser. The QHY version is cheaper, which lets you put some extra cash into a mini-PC so you can get outside of the ASIAir ecosystem. This would give you a bit more control over your imaging experience and would allow you to use non-ZWO equipment in the future. In my experience, going from a stock DSLR to an astro-camera was amazing, however, as you have a modded camera you may not see such a drastic improvement (aside from sensor technology and noise, that is).

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Alexander Lauterbach

Dec 21, 2023 · Edited: Dec 21, 2023

I saw other people who are using a guided Star Watcher GTi with a dedicated Astro Cam as a portable setup and it worked well.
Therefore, I would suggest that if you can do at least 5-minute exposures with your current setup or have a solid guiding RMS of around 1 second or less, then a cam like the 2600MC will be an improvement. But if you have guiding problems you should first consider a better mount like the AM3 or AM5.

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Photon_Collector

Topic starter

Dec 21, 2023

Alexander Lauterbach:
I saw other people who are using a guided Star Watcher GTi with a dedicated Astro Cam as a portable setup and it worked well.
Therefore, I would suggest that if you can do at least 5-minute exposures with your current setup or have a solid guiding RMS of around 1 second or less, then a cam like the 2600MC will be an improvement. But if you have guiding problems you should first consider a better mount like the AM3 or AM5.

*** I can get, most of the time, sub arc-second guiding with the GTi right now, unless it is windy...but good to keep in mind***

Tommy Blomqvist

Dec 21, 2023

IF the mount works well for you then I should go for the dedicated cooled astrocamera.

But the thing is that you likely sooner or later want to use a bigger and heavier OTA.
Not as an upgrade but more as an complement as some objects don't work well with smaller telescopes.
And then you will have to upgrade the mount (or why not have two?)

Ron

Perfect post

Dec 21, 2023

I think you're on the right track IF you are content with your current mount. Going from a DSLR to a dedicated astro camera is a huge difference. And, going from manual focus to autofocus can also improve your images if you tend to "set it and forget it". Using software, you can have the focus adjusted automatically through the night, thereby keeping your stars as tight as possible.

Ron

Well Written Concise

Gilmour Dickson

Dec 21, 2023

The cooled camera will have the most impact as your are currently happy with your tracking/guiding performance. A tight bandpass duo band filter will also make a huge impact on emission nebula. But before jumping on a 2600mc why not consider going mono? A 533mm, wheel and filters would work out about the same. If I was under light pollution it is what I would go for.

Concise

Brian Diaz

Dec 21, 2023

I currently use:

- ZenithStar 61 APO doublet refractor (360 mm focal length; 61 mm aperture; f/5.9)
- ZenithStar Flat 61 field flattener
- Astro modified (full spectrum) Nikon D5300 DSLR
- ASIAIR Plus
- ZWO 120 mm guide camera/scope
- Star Watcher GTi Go-to mount
- Various accessories (dew heaters, bhatinov mask, etc...)

I have ~$2k to spend and would like to make the most impactful purchase. I was thinking of upgrading my DSLR to a ZWO ASI2600MC Pro cooled color camera. I am also thinking of upgrading the OTA itself, but I think the scope is quite good already at this focal ratio. I also already have another alt-az mount that if I get this new camera will allow me to use that other set-up with the Rokinon 135 mm that I have with the DSLR for widefield milky way stuff. As I have $2k to spend, I think going for the camera + an electronic auto-focuser might be the best to get the best bang for my buck.

I have also been eyeing the AM5 mount to allow me add bigger payloads in the future, but the guiding with my current set up is good (just limited to 11 lb payload).

My question is, if you were in my shoes, would you go for:

- New astro-specific camera (like the 2600MC pro)
- New mount (e.g., AM5)
- New OTA (e.g., upgrade to triplet/quadruplet/quintuplet?)
- Something else?

What would make the biggest improvement to my images? I am shooting from Long Island at Bortle 7 and use UV/IR cut filters as well as appropriate optolong dual narrowband filters when appropriate that work great.

Thanks for any input, you guys are the best!

first .best mount , then camera pro (with temp control) and last OTA

clear skies

Tim Ray

Dec 22, 2023

Hello,

As an owner of several mountings and cameras, I think I have a different take. I recommend do nothing! My reason is that this hobby has such a variety of targets and some require some specialized configurations. Solar in HA is one example, a planetary vs a deepsky rig is another. I have always made a purchase because I needed that purchase for a specific rig or direction I wanted to pursue. Maybe this is all a little nebulous, but, my point is that you will know what you need by what you want to do with AP.

If you are unsure which direction(s) you want to go (Objects that interest you the most and want to image.). A mount is always a good purchase. A good mount gives you options. Options on payload, tracking, guiding etc. I have an Orion Atlas from 30 years ago and is still a performer and is used regularly. Cant remember what OTA I had on it originally, but I still have the mounting. If you go with a new OTA make sure the focuser is able to do AP or that is an upgrade to be added to the list…

I have both MM and MC versions of the 533's and 2600's. I use the MM's all the time and only use the MC's when time is tight or I have more than 2 rigs running. A filter drawer is cheaper than a filter wheel. It is also lighter and does not add any off axis weight at the focuser / end of tube… Most CMOS cameras today, including the 2600's/286's and 533's have the same pix size or close to the same pix size. Off brand cameras also might be an option. Less expensive. An asto camera gives you the ability to build a masterDark library because of thermal control over the sensor. Maybe a 533mm and filters vs a 2600mc…

If you currently do not have a EAF or equivalent. That would be my first purchase. Have software focus your rig is preferred to manual focus.

Recommending how people should spend money, to me, is tuff. I think when you narrow in on what you want, camera, tube or mounting, come back and ask the community then. Once you really decide on the objects that you want to image most, then the rig to take those images should come into focus…

I hope this helps.

CS Tim

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Etienne

Dec 22, 2023

Step1: not sure it is relevant as it wasn't mentioned by OP, but honestly to me the best investment I've ever made in this hobby was dedicated software. So buying PixInsight (and learning how to use it), along with the amazing RC-ASTRO plugins (blurXterminator, starXterminator, noiseXterminator) is a MUST in my opinion (and a lot less expensive than new hardware).

Step2: get a better mount (I upgraded from a star adventurer to a zwo am5 and oh boy it's night & day).

Step3: get a cooled astro cam. I would go for a color camera first, or a mono with additional filters & filter wheel (best results, but more tedious & expensive).

Just my 2 cents

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Tom Victor

Dec 22, 2023

Something else:
Buy your partner a $500 unexpected gift, assuming you have a partner/boss.
Then you will be “allowed” to spend what you need to buy a new mount and camera of choice.
Works every time

Upgrade as follows:
1. Mount / Tripod pier etc.
2. Mono camera with good filters
3. Software
4. Optics
5. At this time possibly a new partner

Start over…..

Happy Christmas

Jens

Dec 22, 2023

Etienne:
Step1: not sure it is relevant as it wasn't mentioned by OP, but honestly to me the best investment I've ever made in this hobby was dedicated software. So buying PixInsight (and learning how to use it), along with the amazing RC-ASTRO plugins (blurXterminator, starXterminator, noiseXterminator) is a MUST in my opinion (and a lot less expensive than new hardware).

Step2: get a better mount (I upgraded from a star adventurer to a zwo am5 and oh boy it's night & day).

Step3: get a cooled astro cam. I would go for a color camera first, or a mono with additional filters & filter wheel (best results, but more tedious & expensive).

Just my 2 cents

That is a really good point. Even with my upgrad to the 2600mc pro I can't edit photos outside of pixinsight. That actually made the biggest impact in my workflow regarding image quality. If you're not already, switch to pixinsight and buy RC-Astros plugins

Mau_Bard

Dec 22, 2023

Agree with Tim, buy a motor focus!

🎄Mau

vercastro

Dec 22, 2023

Dedicated Astro camera would make the biggest impact by far. Mono would be even bigger impact. Old DSLRs have fallen way, way behind by comparison. Once you experience the upgrade yourself you will have no doubt.

Regardless of what you decide the big purchase should be, the very next purchase you should make is an EAF. Automatic focus ensures more accuracy and allows completely automated imaging sessions.

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Tobiasz

Dec 22, 2023

Arun H:
The biggest upgrade would be a tank of gas to drive to a dark sky site and back. From looking at your images, you can get much more out of your current set up than you are. I would suggest that before spending a couple grand.

This! I would definetly try to get much more data from a dark site first to see where the "true" limits of my setup are.

@OP Read the specs of your camera and try to find an exposure time that buries your noise at least two or three times. In one post you said your GTi handles the guiding well, then I would try to aim for longer sub exposures.

This calculator can help you with your imaging setup depending on your location: https://smallstarspot.com/shiny/StackSNR/

With your specs:
f/5.9
20 mag/arc-sec^2 sky magnitude (suburban sky, not dark sky!) equals Bortle 5
2 electrons read noise (ISO 1600, https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm )
3,9 micron pixel pitch
55% QE ( https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/Sensor_Characteristics.htm )
Your noise is buried ten times after 46 seconds of sub exposure time.

Drive out of town, find a nice bright target and then pour hours into it. You will be shocked how good your stacked data will be after several hours. How much time do you spend on a target?

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Arny

Dec 22, 2023

Both :-)
harmonic mount AM5 is just incredible.
And a good mount beats most other components.

asi2600 mc pro is really good as well. I strated with that but was ready for a mono a year later, which I know prefer for better control of colors innprocessong. So mono was kind of inevitable for me, but of course more costly for filters and wheel and also adding weight.

if you want to stock with OSC, consider the 2600mc duo, which has an OAG camera integrated. Quite smart and saves the extra gear for OAG.
camera came out shortly after I bought … tough luck for me :-)

Jeremy Hobbs

Jan 4, 2024

I have similar equipment to OP - Z61, SA GTi and started out with those and my Sony a6400. I can appreciate the suggestions to drive to dark sites as they are likely to produce the best value for money in terms of improving overall image quality.

However personally, I am unlikely to do this on a regular basis and therefore the best upgrades for me have been the ones that get me using my rig the most from the comfort of my home. The more I am able to practice all parts of the acquisition and processing cycle, the better my final products have gotten.

For me, these were elements that contributed to my ability to remotely control and automate big parts of the acquisition process. First, moving to a camera that was computer controllable (Sony cams are not) which meant for me an ASI 533MC Pro and PC with NINA. Then it was autoguiding.

But honestly what probably made the biggest difference was an autofocuser. I know that in theory it shouldn't make that big a difference but the fact that I was able to sit inside on a cold night with a big monitor and ensure focus was solid, was simply a game changer for me.

In the last week, I've finally made the switch to Pixinsight and wow - the learning curve is not as bad as I expected and the results are way better already, even recognizing that I'm still a noob.

I also sold my SA GTi and got an AM5. I don't expect that it will yield an overnight transformation in image quality but my choice to upgrade the mount was driven by the fact that I was at the upper edge of the weight limit for the GTi, if not the limits of its guiding accuracy etc. My feeling is that this will set up up for my next moves, whatever they happen to be, although it may be new optics or a switch to mono…or nothing at all.

Good luck!

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