Max usage in IMX455 and IMX571 sensors - Forums

Topic starter

Dec 21, 2023

About the IMX455 and IMX571, in their consumer versions (used in ZWO ASI6200 an ASI2600):

Some manufacturers says that Sony don’t recommend the usage of them for more than 300h per year.

Did anyone ever have any issue with that? Or, does anyone use any them for more than 300h per year, flawlessly?

Brian Puhl

IOTD Staff

Dec 21, 2023 · Edited: Dec 21, 2023

I'm curious where you read this? I think my QHY268M has over 600 hours in the last year at least (reality probably much closer to 1000, I'm only counting completed images). A yearly limit wouldn't make sense, but a MTBF would.

Rafael Sampaio

Topic starter

Dec 21, 2023

You can find this information on the Moravian C3 manual https://www.gxccd.com/art?id=647&cat=1&lang=409

Well Written

Rafael Sampaio

Topic starter

Dec 21, 2023

There was some discussion about that in ZWO forum: https://bbs.astronomy-imaging-camera.com/d/12368-asi2600mc-pro-commercial-or-industrial/6

but never heard about issues caused by a too long usage

Bob Lockwood

Dec 21, 2023 · Edited: Dec 21, 2023

I think the fact that so many users hear on Astrobin take images of 100+ hours per image using those chips, I'd says you have nothing to worry about.

I'd also like to add that Moravian may state that so you will buy the more expensive camera.

Bill McLaughlin

Dec 21, 2023 · Edited: Dec 21, 2023

The biggest reason, IMHO, to get the industrial version is that the substrate is different. I believe it is plastic on the consumer version and ceramic with the industrial version. Ceramic should be flatter and more stable.

Having said that, I have four cameras with with either IMX 455 or IMX 571 and three use the consumer version (ZWO) and one the industrial (Moravian). The Moravian can be bought with either version (unlike most manufacturers). As long as it was available, I got the industrial but the main reason for Moravian is better build quality (at the cost of more weight) and a shutter (it is remote) plus available enhanced cooling (it is where it gets hot).

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Rafael Sampaio

Topic starter

Dec 21, 2023

Bill McLaughlin:
The biggest reason, IMHO, to get the industrial version is that the substrate is different. I believe it is plastic on the consumer version and ceramic with the industrial version. Ceramic should be flatter and more stable.

Having said that, I have four cameras with with either IMX 455 or IMX 571 and three use the consumer version (ZWO) and one the industrial (Moravian). The Moravian can be bought with either version (unlike most manufacturers). As long as it was available, I got the industrial but the main reason for Moravian is better build quality (at the cost of more weight) and a shutter (it is remote) plus available enhanced cooling (it is where it gets hot).

Thanks! Any issues with the ZWO so far?

I do have a ZWO ASI6200mm, and plan to use it in my secondary setup in Obstech, Chile. The primary will use a Moravian C3.

My concern is to use the ZWO and have any trouble far from home. But I actually like my ZWO, it would be nice not have to buy another camera..

JohnHen

Dec 21, 2023

Rafael Sampaio:
About the IMX455 and IMX571, in their consumer versions (used in ZWO ASI6200 an ASI2600):

Some manufacturers says that Sony don’t recommend the usage of them for more than 300h per year.

Did anyone ever have any issue with that? Or, does anyone use any them for more than 300h per year, flawlessly?

Sony offers their sensors in consumer grade and industrial grade. In general, the MTBF is far higher for industrial grade sensors and they are designed for 24/7 usage. Besides a more thorough quality control, industrial grade sensors have a different packaging (ceramics as opposed to plastics) which ensures better thermal conductivity i.e. cooling is more efficient and as a consequence of that circuit aging is improved. Industrial grade sensor are also said to have a better sensor planarity.
So, can one use a consumer grade sensor more than 300hrs a years? Likely yes. But if you do so, the MTBF will go down.
If i had to make a choice for a remote observatory (with in average far higher number of imaging hours per year) i would certainly go for industrial grade in order to stay out of trouble.
CS, John

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Bill McLaughlin

Dec 21, 2023

Rafael Sampaio:
Thanks! Any issues with the ZWO so far?

Not so far, two of them have had very little use but the third is probably approaching 300 hours with no issues so far.

John Favalessa

Dec 22, 2023

So besides needing to be astronomers, photographers and software engineers we also need to be mechanical engineers 😂

vercastro

Dec 22, 2023

I wouldn't even concern yourself for more than a millisecond with this. I and many others I have talked to typically image (weather depending) for thousands of hours a year. Absolutely no degradation of image quality at all.

Richard

Dec 22, 2023

Rafael Sampaio:
About the IMX455 and IMX571, in their consumer versions (used in ZWO ASI6200 an ASI2600):

Some manufacturers says that Sony don’t recommend the usage of them for more than 300h per year.

Did anyone ever have any issue with that? Or, does anyone use any them for more than 300h per year, flawlessly?

Sony offers their sensors in consumer grade and industrial grade. In general, the MTBF is far higher for industrial grade sensors and they are designed for 24/7 usage. Besides a more thorough quality control, industrial grade sensors have a different packaging (ceramics as opposed to plastics) which ensures better thermal conductivity i.e. cooling is more efficient and as a consequence of that circuit aging is improved. Industrial grade sensor are also said to have a better sensor planarity.
So, can one use a consumer grade sensor more than 300hrs a years? Likely yes. But if you do so, the MTBF will go down.
If i had to make a choice for a remote observatory (with in average far higher number of imaging hours per year) i would certainly go for industrial grade in order to stay out of trouble.
CS, John

I think you hit the nail on the head here John. I used to be an engineer in the semiconductor industry where we made MOSFET and IC devices rather than imaging sensors.

We manufactured devices at two quality levels: industrial and automotive. Depsite being manufactured in a clean room environment, you will inevitably introduce dust onto the wafer during manufacturing, which could impact the longevity of the device. The allowable defect level for the automotive variant was far stricter than that of the industrial version, because of the risk impact, and this requirement comes with additional cost.

In this instance, I think the same logic applies to the industrial and consumer version of the sensor (plus some other differences as pointed out). So that would explain why consumer items are rated for less usage and are also cheaper than the industrial version of the same sensor.

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JohnHen

Dec 22, 2023

Richard:
In this instance, I think the same logic applies to the industrial and consumer version of the sensor (plus some other differences as pointed out). So that would explain why consumer items are rated for less usage and are also cheaper than the industrial version of the same sensor.

Hello Richard, thanks for some background info.
There is an additional point with consumer/industrial grade sensors i want to point out: They do a "binning" i.e. after measurements as part of quality control, the "better" sensors get the industrial grade stamp and the rest the consumer grade. As a matter of fact, the industrial grade sensors have a significantly lesser number of pixel defects than the consumer grade sensors.
CS, John

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Byron Miller

Jun 6, 2024

I have consumer level DLSRs with a shutter going on 10-20 years old and well past the 300k clicks they said they were designed for. I expect we'll easily get 10 years out of these cameras if you keep them maintained (don't let bugs move in mostly and keep them behind clean power)

Dan Kearl

Jun 7, 2024

Byron Miller:
I have consumer level DLSRs with a shutter going on 10-20 years old and well past the 300k clicks they said they were designed for. I expect we'll easily get 10 years out of these cameras if you keep them maintained (don't let bugs move in mostly and keep them behind clean power)

I have a 2 year old Zwo 2600mc that stopped working because the $2 power input went bad.
Fairly simple fix but I had to find and mail order a generic input and find a fix-it shop that could burn off the old one and solder on the new one.
So far it's working but there is zero Zwo support for stuff like this, you are on your own.

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Byron Miller

Jun 7, 2024

Dan Kearl:
Byron Miller:
I have consumer level DLSRs with a shutter going on 10-20 years old and well past the 300k clicks they said they were designed for. I expect we'll easily get 10 years out of these cameras if you keep them maintained (don't let bugs move in mostly and keep them behind clean power)

I have a 2 year old Zwo 2600mc that stopped working because the $2 power input went bad.
Fairly simple fix but I had to find and mail order a generic input and find a fix-it shop that could burn off the old one and solder on the new one.
So far it's working but there is zero Zwo support for stuff like this, you are on your own.

This isn't unique to zwo though, and you're only out 2 bucks vs the 100-150% price difference that other cameras have where the field repair would probably cost a lot more in the end too. Cable management is always tough and we're only seeing consumer mounts show interest in helping address this finally.

I can't wait until we get ALPACA on more gear and can use wifi and see a lot more through mount power options and maybe ZWO should adopt flexible XT60 power cables that snap in too but are a lot more malleable and less prone to failure. (or someone could offer a mod service to do this)