I would like to help me decide which camera would be better for deep space … QHY183C or QHY294C? My tubes are 76edph and RC8. Thanks!
QHY183C or QHY294C?
Hi Jordi
I have no experience with the 183c. I own the 294c and its a great camera for a wider field, not a full frame sensor. I also own the 178c which I use for getting up close to larger galaxy's etc. I have not yet tried it out on nebulas. The 183c seems to sit nicely between the two and I have seen many great pics with it. I have had some nice results using the 294c but the qhy driver I have installed is not great. QHY has now put out an all in one driver that is supposed to be better but I have not installed it yet.
Good luck, I don't think you will be disappointed what ever way you go.
Don
https://www.astrobin.com/users/Don-Pearce/
I have no experience with the 183c. I own the 294c and its a great camera for a wider field, not a full frame sensor. I also own the 178c which I use for getting up close to larger galaxy's etc. I have not yet tried it out on nebulas. The 183c seems to sit nicely between the two and I have seen many great pics with it. I have had some nice results using the 294c but the qhy driver I have installed is not great. QHY has now put out an all in one driver that is supposed to be better but I have not installed it yet.
Good luck, I don't think you will be disappointed what ever way you go.
Don
https://www.astrobin.com/users/Don-Pearce/
Supportive
Since
Hi Don,
Not directly related to the subject, but I have the ZWO ASI 178MC and MM and they both have a quite serious amp glow problem. It's almost like you have the sun at the top right corner of the frame. Does the QHY178C (same chip) have the same issue?
Don Pearce:
Hi Jordi
I have no experience with the 183c. I own the 294c and its a great camera for a wider field, not a full frame sensor. I also own the 178c
Hi Don,
Not directly related to the subject, but I have the ZWO ASI 178MC and MM and they both have a quite serious amp glow problem. It's almost like you have the sun at the top right corner of the frame. Does the QHY178C (same chip) have the same issue?
I had the QHY294C, did not have a chance to use it in actual astrophotography because it died as it was taking darks.
It is a nice camera, but has lots of quirks, that you have to live with:
a) Amp glow - lots of it
b) Impossible to take biases - the camera "switches mode" below a 4 sec increasing read-out noise, making biases a pain in the butt. You will have to use darks only without biases, so no scaling with temperature, the darks' exposure has to match the sub exposure.
c) Takes time to cool the sensor and some cameras like the ZWO equivalent, have problems with thermal gradients. It is not due to bad construction but BSI sensors are difficult to cool
d) Lots of hot pixels. Or better "warm" - not going to full 65535 but just higher than average.
Instead of replacing it under warranty, I preferred to switch to an QHY168C, with larger sensor and I did not regret it. 240 second darks are almost indistinguishable from the biases. Not a trace of amp glow. Very few hot pixels.
It is a nice camera, but has lots of quirks, that you have to live with:
a) Amp glow - lots of it
b) Impossible to take biases - the camera "switches mode" below a 4 sec increasing read-out noise, making biases a pain in the butt. You will have to use darks only without biases, so no scaling with temperature, the darks' exposure has to match the sub exposure.
c) Takes time to cool the sensor and some cameras like the ZWO equivalent, have problems with thermal gradients. It is not due to bad construction but BSI sensors are difficult to cool
d) Lots of hot pixels. Or better "warm" - not going to full 65535 but just higher than average.
Instead of replacing it under warranty, I preferred to switch to an QHY168C, with larger sensor and I did not regret it. 240 second darks are almost indistinguishable from the biases. Not a trace of amp glow. Very few hot pixels.
Helpful Insightful Engaging Supportive
You can take great pictures with both cameras.
I use the ASI183MC on my RC8 and on an Esprit 100 f/5,5. I have just tried the mono 294M on a RASA.
Amp glow:
Both those cameras have severe amp glow, but it calibrates out without problem if you take matching darks and dark flats. Bias works with the 183MC but not on the 294C. Dark scaling does not work because of the amp glow.
Cooling:
My ASI183MC has no thermal gradient problems and very few hot pixels and it cools quickly to more than 35 °C below ambient, even though there is little benefit to go below -10°. I am not sure that a thermal gradient will be a serious issue with the low dark current of these chips. My Qhy294M struggles to get to 30° below ambient, and it would benefit from -15°, which I cannot reliably reach in summer.
Sensor characteristics:
In comparison to a 168C (Panasonic sensor), the 183C has much smaller pixels, a much larger full well depth, and higher read noise per area, so giving you several reasons to use fewer longer exposures. On the other hand it is more sensitive. On my RC8, 180s is the minimum exposure time per frame even for bright targets, 240-300s is better. The 294C is as sensitive as the 183C and with the bigger pixels might need shorter exposures.
Scope matching:
With the RC8 you are very much oversampled and have only a limited field of view with the 183C, so the 294C would seem to be a better fit. I am using my 1600MM (like the Qhy168M) almost exclusively on the RC8. On the 76EDPH, the 183MC might be a better fit, but only if you have good seeing.
Subjective stuff:
I really like the data the 183MC produces, the noise profile is very nice to work with. The 1600MM and the 294M are much harder to work with unless I use the "Mure Denoise" script from Pixinsight (which only works for mono). The following was my first light of the combination 183MC and RC8 - so even with what I said above, it does work nicely.
Keenan's System
I use the ASI183MC on my RC8 and on an Esprit 100 f/5,5. I have just tried the mono 294M on a RASA.
Amp glow:
Both those cameras have severe amp glow, but it calibrates out without problem if you take matching darks and dark flats. Bias works with the 183MC but not on the 294C. Dark scaling does not work because of the amp glow.
Cooling:
My ASI183MC has no thermal gradient problems and very few hot pixels and it cools quickly to more than 35 °C below ambient, even though there is little benefit to go below -10°. I am not sure that a thermal gradient will be a serious issue with the low dark current of these chips. My Qhy294M struggles to get to 30° below ambient, and it would benefit from -15°, which I cannot reliably reach in summer.
Sensor characteristics:
In comparison to a 168C (Panasonic sensor), the 183C has much smaller pixels, a much larger full well depth, and higher read noise per area, so giving you several reasons to use fewer longer exposures. On the other hand it is more sensitive. On my RC8, 180s is the minimum exposure time per frame even for bright targets, 240-300s is better. The 294C is as sensitive as the 183C and with the bigger pixels might need shorter exposures.
Scope matching:
With the RC8 you are very much oversampled and have only a limited field of view with the 183C, so the 294C would seem to be a better fit. I am using my 1600MM (like the Qhy168M) almost exclusively on the RC8. On the 76EDPH, the 183MC might be a better fit, but only if you have good seeing.
Subjective stuff:
I really like the data the 183MC produces, the noise profile is very nice to work with. The 1600MM and the 294M are much harder to work with unless I use the "Mure Denoise" script from Pixinsight (which only works for mono). The following was my first light of the combination 183MC and RC8 - so even with what I said above, it does work nicely.
Keenan's System
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