First light with new setup including Mono-Camera and ZWO AM5! Wow, what a difference!! - Forums

Topic starter

Nov 30, 2023 · Edited: Nov 30, 2023

Hey all,

This is my first forum contribution reporting my first light with a new rig I built. I just wanted to say hi and maybe have a conversation.

First off, I started astrophotography about two years ago and I had a lot of fun since, so I decided to bump up my astro-budget and built my deam setup (which I am not planning on modifiying for the years to come). I was quite lucky, since I got in contact with a person selling ALL his premium astrophotgraphy gear for less than half what it is worth, otherwise I could have never afforded all the equipment. I also built the new rig with portability in mind, since I am not able to photograph from home (yet!) so I went for an ZWO AM5 mount. As a telescope I went for an Esprit 100ED and camera is an ASI2600MM Pro. Not the most portable setup but still managable with a car.

Living in Switzerland poses quite a challenge, especially during this time with endless cloudy and/or rainy nights. Therefore, I decided to drive out to the south of Switzerland where weather is much better and try out everything. And since the full moon was out, I would not be dissappointed in case something went wrong.

And wow, I was not dissapointed at all!! The biggest difference I saw, was in image detail with the new mono-camera and H-alpha filter, which just blew my mind. I was debating for a long time whether I should jump to mono and this decision was totally worth it. Even though I was playing around with different settings and so on, I took three different images using 5min subs:

- 5 hours of horse head nebula (while I was sleeping)
- only 35 minutes on the heart nebula!!
- and 25 minutes on the Orion Nebula.

It blew my mind the amount of detail I could pull out from such short integration times, which I would only have achieved in many many hours using an OSC. I still own my ASI533MC Pro and I am planning on trying a comparison since this camera has the same pixel size as my new ASI2600MM Pro (despite smaller FOV).

I also had some troubles, even though it might be more related to the program rather than equipment I was using. Namely, my AM5 was guiding rather poorly at 1 to 1.5" RMS which I was expecting to be way lower (I was achieving such values with the EQ3-Pro tbh). I am running KStars/Ekos from a RPi4 on my telescope from my Mac inside the house and somehow I could not get PHD2 connected and used instead the internal guider which is not the greatest. I hope I can figure out how to use PHD2 otherwise I am considering switching to N.I.N.A. since the KStars/Ekos platform is great but rather buggy.

Let me know how you like my first lights and maybe some tips on improving.

CS,
David

P.S:.: Don't mind my framing, the built-in rotator on the Esprit is quite difficult to handle (not a big fan so far) and I looking into some solution.

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Graham McCullough

Nov 30, 2023

I know you're mad about your framing, but I actually love the horsehead and flame nebula framing a lot. The scale of it all gives me shivers.

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David

Nov 30, 2023

Congrats on the new rig! Stunning images, especially considering the short integration time. I'm just starting on the same journey into monochrome imaging, and like you, I was blown away by the detail in the Ha images I took on the first night out. Good luck going forward!

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Dcolam

Topic starter

Nov 30, 2023

David:
Congrats on the new rig! Stunning images, especially considering the short integration time. I'm just starting on the same journey into monochrome imaging, and like you, I was blown away by the detail in the Ha images I took on the first night out. Good luck going forward!

Thanks, I see that we chose the same targets to test out our rig. Good luck and clear skies to you, too!

I see that you are using an AM5 as well. How is your guiding? What settings are you using?

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Ashraf AbuSara

Nov 30, 2023 · Edited: Nov 30, 2023

Congratulations and incredible data for the integration time. Especially Orion!

The AM5 is a phenomenal mount for me. I have put as much as 38lbs of payload on it (with a counterweight) at a focal length of 2065mm with a C11 and had great results. It guides in the range of 0.4-0.6"

You have to keep your expsoures fast, around 1s to correct for the fairly significant PE. I also note that you already have an OAG in your imaging train. I suggest you use it instead of the guidescope since you already have it. It helps avoid any issues with flexure of the guidescope.

Even though you don't need a counterweight, the imbalance in the setup can cause issues with your tripod. I recommend you consider getting a 10-15lb weight to put in the weight basket Try to make sure that the tripod is on solid ground if possible. Concrete or asphalt. If you have to be in grass try to use the metal spikes that came with the tripod and put the weight in the basket in the bottom to make sure it stays as stable as possible.

I have Kstars / Ekos but have not used them yet. I have been using the ASIair exclusively. Since your entire setup is with ZWO, you can consider getting an ASIair. I recommend you play around with the aggression on the DEC and RA. Keep them low and slowly increase them to see what works. The ZWO forums have extensive information to optimize your AM5.

You will thoroughly enjoy this setup.

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Dcolam

Topic starter

Nov 30, 2023

Thank you for the tipps, Ashraf! I will look into it and make everything sturdier.

Yes, I set up the OAG but I couldn't figure out the focus for the guide camera. At some point I was getting inpatient and just threw on the guide scope.

I hope, using PHD2 and using the OAG will sort out the guiding issues.

Richard

Nov 30, 2023

Congratulations on your setup, these are really nice first images David! Once you dip your toe into mono, it's very difficult to go back. It loos like you have some great equipment, just carry on cracking out the imaging time and I'm sure you'll end up with some great colour images

Ashraf AbuSara

Nov 30, 2023 · Edited: Nov 30, 2023

Thank you for the tipps, Ashraf! I will look into it and make everything sturdier.

Yes, I set up the OAG but I couldn't figure out the focus for the guide camera. At some point I was getting inpatient and just threw on the guide scope.

I hope, using PHD2 and using the OAG will sort out the guiding issues.

Quick troubleshooting on the OAG:

1. Make sure the prism is pointing in the right direction. (I know it sounds silly, but it happens!)

2. Make sure the prism is not being covered by the tilt plate and it is released close enough to the imaging axis, but not too close to where the prism is covering the 2600mm sensor.

3. Take off the extensions on the guide camera, and then put the camera all the way in. I think I see a helical focuser so you should be able to fine focus with pushing / pulling the camera.

4. Crank the gain on your guide camera.

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Dcolam

Topic starter

Nov 30, 2023

Ashraf AbuSara:
3. Take off the extensions on the guide camera, and then put the camera all the way in. I think I see a helical focuser so you should be able to fine focus with pushing / pulling the camera.

You've just spared me some immense frustration with this one. I had the extension still on the guide camera. Thank you so much.

Now I just need some clear nights to test everything.

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Ashraf AbuSara

Nov 30, 2023

Ashraf AbuSara:
3. Take off the extensions on the guide camera, and then put the camera all the way in. I think I see a helical focuser so you should be able to fine focus with pushing / pulling the camera.

Now I just need some clear nights to test everything.

*So say we all*

Alan Brunelle

Nov 30, 2023

Ashraf AbuSara:
Even though you don't need a counterweight, the imbalance in the setup can cause issues with your tripod. I recommend you consider getting a 10-15lb weight to put in the weight basket Try to make sure that the tripod is on solid ground if possible. Concrete or asphalt. If you have to be in grass try to use the metal spikes that came with the tripod and put the weight in the basket in the bottom to make sure it stays as stable as possible.

I was just going to ask this question upon reading this thread and you maybe have answered my question. So far I have been using rather small optical tubes with my AM5 and not been so worried about tripod stability. However, I intend to soon put a WO 91mm scope onto it and wondering whether I should add the counterbalance. Fact is, I added the solid pier extension and this seems to make the whole rig even more prone to tipping. Even though with my small scopes this is not a fear, it seems to put more leverage on the system when the scopes are far to the sides of the meridian that I can imagine a little rocking on the soft feet. But when I move to the weightier 91mm, I actually fear the whole rig, tripod and all falling over! I also set up on a hill, and the upper tripod legs need to be shortened to get level. This makes the tripod footprint size even smaller and more prone to falling. Any thoughts or recommendations?

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Tom Boyd

Dec 1, 2023

Alan Brunelle:
I was just going to ask this question upon reading this thread and you maybe have answered my question. So far I have been using rather small optical tubes with my AM5 and not been so worried about tripod stability. However, I intend to soon put a WO 91mm scope onto it and wondering whether I should add the counterbalance. Fact is, I added the solid pier extension and this seems to make the whole rig even more prone to tipping. Even though with my small scopes this is not a fear, it seems to put more leverage on the system when the scopes are far to the sides of the meridian that I can imagine a little rocking on the soft feet. But when I move to the weightier 91mm, I actually fear the whole rig, tripod and all falling over! I also set up on a hill, and the upper tripod legs need to be shortened to get level. This makes the tripod footprint size even smaller and more prone to falling. Any thoughts or recommendations?

I run a WO GT81 on an AM5 without a counter weights using the ZWO pier extension. I experience no stability issues. I do, however, put my power supply in the tripod bag, and the power supply is fairly heavy, about 20 lbs. I also use my AM5 with my WO FLT132. For this setup I use an 11 lb counter weight. Again with the counter weight and the power supply in the tripod bag, I experience no stability issues.

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Alan Brunelle

Dec 1, 2023

Tom Boyd:
I run a WO GT81 on an AM5 without a counter weights using the ZWO pier extension. I experience no stability issues. I do, however, put my power supply in the tripod bag, and the power supply is fairly heavy, about 20 lbs. I also use my AM5 with my WO FLT132. For this setup I use an 11 lb counter weight. Again with the counter weight and the power supply in the tripod bag, I experience no stability issues.

Thanks Tom. Very valuable information. I currently add weight, even with my small scopes. But I can easily add more weight. And I will probably move to the spikes or some other thing when the bigger scope comes my way.

Ashraf AbuSara

Dec 1, 2023

Alan Brunelle:
Ashraf AbuSara:
Even though you don't need a counterweight, the imbalance in the setup can cause issues with your tripod. I recommend you consider getting a 10-15lb weight to put in the weight basket Try to make sure that the tripod is on solid ground if possible. Concrete or asphalt. If you have to be in grass try to use the metal spikes that came with the tripod and put the weight in the basket in the bottom to make sure it stays as stable as possible.

I was just going to ask this question upon reading this thread and you maybe have answered my question. So far I have been using rather small optical tubes with my AM5 and not been so worried about tripod stability. However, I intend to soon put a WO 91mm scope onto it and wondering whether I should add the counterbalance. Fact is, I added the solid pier extension and this seems to make the whole rig even more prone to tipping. Even though with my small scopes this is not a fear, it seems to put more leverage on the system when the scopes are far to the sides of the meridian that I can imagine a little rocking on the soft feet. But when I move to the weightier 91mm, I actually fear the whole rig, tripod and all falling over! I also set up on a hill, and the upper tripod legs need to be shortened to get level. This makes the tripod footprint size even smaller and more prone to falling. Any thoughts or recommendations?

I have really pushed my AM5 and TC40 tripod to the limit. I have put a 38lb payload on it with the C11 and also used a large 130mm refractor (AT130EDT). I do suggest putting anywhere from 15-30lbs in the weight basket regardless of what OTA size you are using, and to put a counterweight if you exceed 28lbs.

One other thing you could consider to improve your stability on concrete or asphalt floor is to use third party tripod feet. They work well with the TC40 tripod and help improve stability and dampen vibrations:

https://www.amazon.com/Leofoto-Universal-Stainless-Connectors-Non-Slip/dp/B01HSQLI5O

Another suggestion is to always make sure that your mount is pointing towards one of your tripod feet when polar aligned.

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Alan Brunelle

Dec 1, 2023

Ashraf AbuSara:
One other thing you could consider to improve your stability on concrete or asphalt floor is to use third party tripod feet. They work well with the TC40 tripod and help improve stability and dampen vibrations:

https://www.amazon.com/Leofoto-Universal-Stainless-Connectors-Non-Slip/dp/B01HSQLI5O

Another suggestion is to always make sure that your mount is pointing towards one of your tripod feet when polar aligned.

Those feet look wonderful. I will assume that they are the proper thread fit for the AM5?

Ashraf AbuSara

Dec 1, 2023

Alan Brunelle:
Ashraf AbuSara:
One other thing you could consider to improve your stability on concrete or asphalt floor is to use third party tripod feet. They work well with the TC40 tripod and help improve stability and dampen vibrations:

https://www.amazon.com/Leofoto-Universal-Stainless-Connectors-Non-Slip/dp/B01HSQLI5O

Another suggestion is to always make sure that your mount is pointing towards one of your tripod feet when polar aligned.

Those feet look wonderful. I will assume that they are the proper thread fit for the AM5?

Yes they fit natively with the TC40 tripod without any modification.

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Brian Puhl

IOTD Staff

Dec 1, 2023

Welcome to the world of the Espirit 100. It will be an amazing scope paired with your imaging train. I was so happy with mine I bought a second one lol.

Dcolam

Topic starter

Dec 1, 2023

Brian Puhl:
Welcome to the world of the Espirit 100. It will be an amazing scope paired with your imaging train. I was so happy with mine I bought a second one lol.

Thanks, the Esprit 100 seems to be a beast!! I like it very much so far.

Wow, do you use them on the same mount as a dual setup or separately? What was the reasoning to buy a second Esprit?

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Jens

Dec 1, 2023

En schwiizer! hans gfühl git nöd viel schwiizer astrofotografe wo nöd grad 60gi + ;) I've just got myself a asi 2600mc pro, after using a Canon 600D for a while now, this upgrade has been amazing. so much clean data to use. The Am5 will be my next upgrade for sure so I can finally look at scopes heavier than 3kg.

And yeah, the weather has been such a pain in the recent weeks. I'm really looking forward to the next clear couple of clear nights.

Dcolam

Topic starter

Dec 1, 2023

Jens:
En schwiizer! hans gfühl git nöd viel schwiizer astrofotografe wo nöd grad 60gi + ;)

Hahaha jo säg nüt! Mer hett scho chli s gfühl, es isch es hobby für lüüt inere mid-life crisis

. Aber spass machts ämel scho.

Yess, lets hope for some nice weather soon. November has been apperently the rainiest month since 30 years.

LG

Brian Puhl

IOTD Staff

Dec 1, 2023

Brian Puhl:
Welcome to the world of the Espirit 100. It will be an amazing scope paired with your imaging train. I was so happy with mine I bought a second one lol.

Thanks, the Esprit 100 seems to be a beast!! I like it very much so far.

Wow, do you use them on the same mount as a dual setup or separately? What was the reasoning to buy a second Esprit?

They're on seperate Mounts. Free to do what they want. I am currently using them together on the same target however. I bought a second one in effort to soak up more data faster. 10 hours of darkness means 20 hours of data per night. It's really nice... Won't deny.

Dcolam

Topic starter

Dec 8, 2023 · Edited: Dec 8, 2023

Small update, we had a two consecutive clear skies in Switzerland and I was able to collect my very first fully colorized images in SHO. On my profile, the Rosette Nebula and soon also the Heart Nebula.

It is so much fun working with monochrome images!!

And I could fix also the guiding issues with the AM5, now I can autoguide without any problems under 1"RMS, usually between 0.5 and 0.7". Thanks for the tipps, guys.

https://www.astrobin.com/dxfcyn/

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