ASIAIRpro and guiding - Forums

Topic starter

Oct 30, 2020

Hi folks, I consider to purchase a ZWO ASI cooled CMOS mono camera to enter the field of narrowband photography. As I'm reluctant to bring my macbook into my backyard (or elsewhere as I am quite mobile with my scope) to operate the camera (and I think I don't want to purchase the ASTREL camera which has a kind of built-in controlling device), I was advised to purchase the ASIAIRpro device which indeed does control the camera (and many other things). That sounds good to me. However, concerning auto guiding I love to keep using my old Lacerta Mgen guider which is not compatible with the ASIAIR (i.e. I can't interface the Mgen guider with the ASIAiRpro), so I let my old Mgen do the auto guiding work of my CGEM mount as before, and just use the ASIAIRpro to control the exposure of the ASI camera, i.e. just taking exposures. That should would shouldn't it ? I prefer to ask these questions before investing money…. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Chris

Christoph Winkler

Topic starter

Oct 30, 2020

Question seems redundant as TeleskopService confirmed that this set up as described should work….

wsg

Oct 30, 2020

Yes. I had the same situation. I used asiAir Pro when I first got it, only for image capture while my Mgen II guided. I can tell you that you will love the asiAir Pro for plate solving and Polar alignment as well as guiding if you choose to change to a zwo guide camera from the Mgen system. My Mgen is permanently mounted on my pier as a back up. The wifi of the asiAir pro has a range of 10 feet but the ethernet works perfectly with a booster. I used to leave my iPad in a heavy ziplock dew proof bag on a chair in wifi range but now I can control the telescope and Pro from inside my house.
Scott

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Christoph Winkler

Topic starter

Oct 30, 2020

Thanks confirming my “understanding “.
I’m somewhat reluctant to spend extra money on guiding if my existing equipment works fine. The hardware for narrowband imaging is already quite expensive.
I’m using the Celestron StarSense module and plate solving and polar alignment is just a piece of cake.

Jens Mascher

Oct 30, 2020

Hallo Christoph,

ich verwende auch die ASIAir Pro, lasse aber das Guiding mit einem MGEN-3 machen. Das hat den einzigen Nachteil, dass das Giding z.B. vor und nach Aufnahmen, beim Fokussieren usw. abgeschaltet werden muss. Ansonsten ist das Equipment gut ausgereift meine ich. Man kann später z.B. gut auf NINA umsteigen (läuft auch auf älterer Hardware zuverlässig, NINA soll in Zukunft auch alle MGEN´s unterstützen.
Also von mir ein klares JA zu diesem Teil ;-)

CS,

Jens

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Christoph Winkler

Topic starter

Oct 31, 2020

Jens,

I am a bit confused here: you say you are using the ASiAirpro but the MGEN-3 does your guiding, which means the guiding camera is *not* interfacing with the ASIAIR pro. So very similar to my set-up. Ok.
But, if so, why do you switch off guiding during focusing and before and after exposures controlled by the ASIAIR?
Chris
(Sorry not to reply in german, but I think the forum is a bit more extra-national)

Jens Mascher

Oct 31, 2020

Because I noted, that, if focusing and i.e. targeting within the exposures (rotation i.e.) the MGEN looses the stars and begins correcting like crazy. Even if you handle without WiFi, you produce "Mini-Earthquakes" ;-) and this interrupts the guiding. I stop the guiding even before filter change ad re-focusing. In normal, a software like NINA or SGP stop also the guiding for that time.

Jérémie

Nov 2, 2020

I am wondering buying the ASIAIR Pro myself, so I am also eager to read advices of current users and their setup.
That being said, concerning guiding, I would definitely link the capture and guiding, just because dithering seems a good thing to have even with cooled zwo cameras, and you can only dither between exposures… so it needs to be sync.
I am new to astrophotography, so my knowledge is more theoretical now, but I thought I should raise the issue and see what experts thinks :-)

Christoph Winkler

Topic starter

Nov 2, 2020

Well, I would agree that dithering is important. But hot pixels can also be treated (i.e. reducing their impact) using CosmeticCorrection in PixInsight. I am somewhat reluctant to give up my faithful (though old) guiding using my Lacerta Mgen (which is not compatible with ASIAIRpro) just for the sake of guiding and buy a new guiding camera….because when you switch from DSLR imaging to cooled CCD monochrome imaging you not only need the CCD camera itself but also narrowband filters, in the case of ZWO Asi the ASIAIRpro controller, different adapters to put the camera behind the flattener at the proper distance etc. etc. etc. so the price tag can become substantial and so another guiding camera is not first priority .

Bill in Nova Scotia

Nov 3, 2020

I use an ASIAir Pro and I honestly cannot see myself ever using anything else. I have a WO ZentihStar and ASI 183MC Pro imaging camera long with a WO Uniguide and ASI 120MM for guiding all sitting on an AVX mount (about to be upgraded). The ASIAir does an incredible job at polar alignment, plate solving is a breeze and it can control the entire imaging sequence. The only downside is the wifi range is very limited so I attached a TP-LInk travel router to the ASI and use an ethernet cable from the ASI to the router. Now I can sit comfortably in my RV with my iPad controlling everything

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Christoph Winkler

Topic starter

Nov 3, 2020

Hi Bill,
good to know the that you are happy with the ASIAIRpro and the ASI camera. Before I purchase it I need to understand how it works.
So, please share your experience with me: Assume everything is set up and running: The ASI imaging camera is accumulating, say, 50 light frames and, say, 20 darks. I would guess (because my DSLR has about the same # pixels) you have about 20Mb per frame? These 70 frames (or 1.4 Gb) will be communicated from the imaging camera to the ASIAIRpro, via USB3. There you write it to a, say, 16 Gb USB stick. Right ? What's the format of the frames ? RAW ? FITS ? Can you choose ? If it is FITS, would you accidentally know whether PixInsight would accept FITS format in its processing routines ? Thanks for your feedback, Chris

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Bill in Nova Scotia

Nov 3, 2020

Hi Chris,

Then ASIAir Pro comes with a 64Gb flash drive and that's where the files are stored. They can be stored on the SD card that contains the operating system but that's not a good idea and they are a pain to get off it so leave it to store on the flash drive. They are stored in separate folders with custom names specifying the target, type (light,dark,etc.) and exposure such as this:

light_horsehead_300s_Bin1_gain110_-20c_0001.fit

When I'm done I just pull the flash drive and copy the folders over to my computer for processing. The way the ASI organizes the files is one of the reasons I love it so much. It does save them as fit files and they are read and processed by PixInsight perfectly. I've opened them in PixInsight, Astro Pixel Processor and a utility called Fits Viewer (I use a Mac) with no issues at all.

One other thing from one of your comments above - Dithering on the ASI is a breeze, set the options (every frame, every x numbers of frames, etc) and let it go. Works beautifully.

If you've got any other questions, feel free to ask. I've used it for some now and I'm very knowledgable about it

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Christoph Winkler

Topic starter

Nov 3, 2020

Thanks Bill. That sounds very good and it brings me closer to sending off my shopping list….. Again, yes, dithering is nice to have, but for the time being I prefer not to invest in another guiding camera….and with PI and good darks you can achieve a lot on hot pixels too…..also plate solving and polar alignment is a piece of cake with the StarSense I have …. so for now I want to focus on the imaging as such.

Ronny May

Nov 3, 2020 · Edited: Nov 3, 2020

Ich glaub dithering ist dann auch nicht möglich wenn du mit mgen guidest und mit asiair Bilder machst. Ich war damals auch mgen Verfechter. Aber mit einem Blick über den Tellerrand lässt man sich auch auf den asi air ein, denn es ist Arsch einfach damit zu guiden und macht einfach mehr Sinn, ebenso dithering ist nicht zu unterschätzen, eigentlich ein Muss.

Christoph Winkler

Topic starter

Nov 3, 2020

Hi Ronny,

sorry, I don't get that: Assume the Mgen is connected to the CGEM mount, so the Mgen is guiding the mount whatever camera you have in the focus of the telescope, or even none at all. (I'm guiding using a view finder, not an OAG). So, while the Mgen is guiding the mount, the ASI takes images…. why should the ASI care which device is guiding ?

John Tucker

Nov 3, 2020

I started using the ASI Air Pro about a month ago, and my thought was "where have you been all my life?". In the past, I've used simple camera control programs like Backyard EOS and Sharpcap. I never realized how much I hated finding that first star in a 3 star alignment until I didn't have to do it anymore. Ditto manual searching for a target when GoTo landed it just outside my FOV and getting up at 2am to make sure the camera didn't hit the tripod.

Yeah, I realize that there are laptop programs that will do the above. But I went through several of them only to get uninterpretable "Exception error 87934b78345 address unknown!" and related issues just getting the programs set up. With the ASIAir, it just works out of the box.

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John Tucker

Nov 3, 2020

The other upside is that it always seemed like continually connecting and disconnecting stuff was hard on the laptop USB ports. Since the system didn't work that well with a USB hub, once a single USB port on a typical laptop having 3 ports went bad, the laptop was useless for AP. With the Air Pro I just leave everything hooked up.

Jérémie

Nov 4, 2020

I have a question about the ASIAIR Pro and polar alignement procedure : I use Sharpcap today, with the method where you roughly aim around Polaris, you start the procedure where Sharpcap platesolve a frame, then you rotate the mount 90 degrees, it plate solve again, finding the rotation point in the sky and from then telling you how to adjust the mount orientation to match the true rotation axis of earth. I do the rotate part manually, having a Skyguider Pro.
What is the procedure with the ASIAIAR ? Is it similar ? When you have to adjust RA, can it be done manually (ie. when you don’t have a fully connected mount).

Last but least about guiding : today I use PHD2. It works fine but I only guide RA, as the Skyguider Pro don’t have a motorized DEC. Do you know if the ASIAIR can do the same / is compatible with the Skyguider Pro ?

dkamen

Nov 5, 2020

I have a question about the ASIAIR Pro and polar alignement procedure : I use Sharpcap today, with the method where you roughly aim around Polaris, you start the procedure where Sharpcap platesolve a frame, then you rotate the mount 90 degrees, it plate solve again, finding the rotation point in the sky and from then telling you how to adjust the mount orientation to match the true rotation axis of earth. I do the rotate part manually, having a Skyguider Pro.What is the procedure with the ASIAIAR ? Is it similar ? When you have to adjust RA, can it be done manually (ie. when you don’t have a fully connected mount).

Last but least about guiding : today I use PHD2. It works fine but I only guide RA, as the Skyguider Pro don’t have a motorized DEC. Do you know if the ASIAIR can do the same / is compatible with the Skyguider Pro ?

Hi,

It is exactly the same as what you are doing, in both regards.

Thomas Ammann

Aug 15, 2021

Jens Mascher:
Because I noted, that, if focusing and i.e. targeting within the exposures (rotation i.e.) the MGEN looses the stars and begins correcting like crazy. Even if you handle without WiFi, you produce "Mini-Earthquakes" ;-) and this interrupts the guiding. I stop the guiding even before filter change ad re-focusing. In normal, a software like NINA or SGP stop also the guiding for that time.

Hello - very interesting, your remarks about the MGEN_3 that must be turned off during the search for objects - I confirm: I do it too. I have another problem: I use the EAF ASI (electronic auto-focus) to adjust the focus every 1/2 hour, with an MGEN which provides guiding. The question: do you think that the movements resulting from the search for focus by the EAF ASI disrupt the functioning of MGEN? Thank you very much - clear skies

Sean van Drogen

Aug 15, 2021

Had the AAP but switched to a small mini pc instead because I could integrate some none ZWO gear choices. Got it running NINA and all other software that I need. A smallish dual core with 8gb ram and 512gb m2 drive was about the same price as AAP

Jens Mascher

Aug 15, 2021

I think so. In my opinion it is (at present) impossible to use both platforms comfortable together. I have to decide if I await another improvement in the ZWO hardware and software or if I switch to a PC based solution (i.e. N.I.N.A.)

@ Sean: I tried to use a small Mini-PC but this hasn´t enough power to serve i.e. Stellarium fast enough. For simple operations that is sufficiant, but I like to have a response as known at home for remote operation, and here, I will switch to another system (Gigabyte Barbone with Ryzen mobile CPU).

Thomas Ammann

Aug 16, 2021

Jens Mascher:
I think so. In my opinion it is (at present) impossible to use both platforms comfortable together. I have to decide if I await another improvement in the ZWO hardware and software or if I switch to a PC based solution (i.e. N.I.N.A.)

@ Sean: I tried to use a small Mini-PC but this hasn´t enough power to serve i.e. Stellarium fast enough. For simple operations that is sufficiant, but I like to have a response as known at home for remote operation, and here, I will switch to another system (Gigabyte Barbone with Ryzen mobile CPU).

Hello - in my experience, I can use ASI EAF with the MGEN if I do the 'goto' with a SkyFi plugged into the mount; on the other hand, if I do the goto with ASI AIR Pro connected to the mount, the MGEN cannot correct the interference created by the 'ASI AIR pro - mount' link. So, if you want to use the MGEN with the ASI AIR pro, you have to do the goto separately with SkyFi and Skysafari Pro. Clear skies

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Antonio

Aug 16, 2021

Hello.
I do own an ASI Air Pro, your idea should work but you will loose the possibility to do dithering and a lot of manual thing need to happen as the ASI Air pro will not be able to automate the shooting session if you choose to use an external guiding.
For example to make it work probably you need to ask the ASI Air to point your target at first then manually start to guide, manually start your imaging session after the guiding it's stabilized, stop the guiding and the imaging before the meridian to resume both after the meridian flip did happen.

Maybe think about a small guide scope and an ASI120 with that combo you will be able to autoguide from the ASI Air, all the process i described will be automated by the ASI air pro and you will be able to dither also.
As an alternative take a look to AstroBerry, runs on a Raspberry PI 4 and will cost you less then half of the ASI Air, without using the ASI Air on it's full capability probably there are cheaper options. AstroBerry can do all the task as the ASI Air, you will have the same exact issues but at least it's cheaper.
Also N.I.N.A. is a very good option but you will need a PC, an used hold laptop will cost you less then the ASI Air pro

Ciao

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Gary JONES

Aug 16, 2021 · Edited: Aug 17, 2021

Hi Christophe, msg, Jens, Jeremie, Bill, Ronny, John, damen, Thomas, Sean and Antonio,
I've read this thread with great interest, and thought I could help by sharing my experience.

I recently bought an ASI-Air PRO to go with my ZWO ASI071MC Pro imaging camera and ASI290MM Mini Guide Camera with OAG.

The ASIAIR PRO makes Polar Alignment and tracking sooooo easy.
It works so well, I took my guide camera and OAG off my rig, so its even easier to use now.

The ASIAIR Pro makes PA a breeze in just a few minutes, you dont actually need a guide camera (well, you might if you have a big telescope),
AND it does live-stacking, so you can get by without external stacking software.
And well as auto-focussing, managing filter wheels etc.

The software runs on iOS - so you can drive your whole setup via an iPhone or an iPad.

I've compared ASIAIR vs APP and there's not a lot of difference in the end result.
ASIAIR is much easier to use.

The ASIAir saves image files as FITs with a JEG thumbnail, it manages darks and bias frames as well.

AND - it automates meridian flips, so you can leave your gear unattended for long imaging sessions that cross the meridian, without having to get up at midnight to do a manual meridian flip. It includes its own USB hub and power management hub too.

It also includes quite a good catalog of targets, so you can select your target on your iPad and the ASIAIR does the rest.
You can even select a series of targets, and the ASIAIR will sequence them and do a meridian flip as well if it's needed.

Honestly, I never thought something so inexpensive could do so much.

My advice : buy the ASIAIR Pro - don't bother about a tracking camera unless you have a large thelescope.

Another tip - particularly for Mac users (who generally suffer from a deficiency of astro software) ...
Try Affinity Photo from Serif software.
It's cross-platform - so it works on Mac and Windows, it includes a bunch of great astronomy tools, including stacking lights, darks, bias, plates etc,
as well as many image editing features. It has great noise reduction filters and a bunch of other useful astronomy-related tools.

All I use now is :-
- Graphic Converter from Lemke software for image browsing - it also opens FITS and lets you convert between formats, create movies etc;
- Affinity Photo
- ASIAIR Pro
- Luminos - the most amazing planetarium app available for iOS. You can use this to help plan your imaging sessions, to even control your mount.

These pieces of software are really inexpensive and super-easy to use.
I've stopped using APP, Photoshop and all the rest - I just don't need them any more to get good results.

Happy to help further if anyone has more questions

Clear skies,

Gary (Sydney, Australia)

PS - Im not affiliated with any of these companies, I just think they have good products that are great value for money.

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