Automatic alignment

I have often asked myself this question. Not only with the polar alignment. With many tasks around astrophotography I have the impression that this should be easier or even automatic. But it does not. Instead, I have to constantly buy new adapters, tubes, cables, etc.

The situation reminds me of the advent of home computers in the 1980s. Back then, every manufacturer had its own system, and you often had to improvise and tinker. 

That's why I suspect astrophotography hasn't yet realized that it's just hitting the mainstream. Only slowly there are the first products for amateurs who just want to take beautiful photos. The ASIair is such a product. Fully automatic telescopes like the Vaonis Stellina go one step further. I suspect in ten years these devices will be the standard. Then we will laugh at our complicated methods of doing a polar alignment, finding the focus, adjusting the tracking, not to mention the drama of finding the right camera for the telescope beforehand and setting the correct backfocus. And an AI will also do the image processing for us.

But not everyone here will like that. After all, where is the admiration for our secret knowledge when every dummy can take similar pictures? And why have we spent years learning all the theory and technology if suddenly the computer is doing everything? 

So, for me personally, it's all about the pictures. And I would be happy if I could get them in an easier way.

The ASIair is such a product. Fully automatic telescopes like the Vaonis Stellina go one step further.

Exactly. It’s why i’m a little surprised that ZWO didn’t go that step further to make their new AM5 have the feature of automatic alignment. Since they have everything else for it in place (cameras/computer/asiair/software) 
And it’s a mount all about portability, and ease of use. So, setting up often and quick.

I’m sure they could get customers for a polar alligment version of the mount.

I guess this is just one of those solutions to an engineering problem that doesn't make sense financially on an equatorial mount.  When I think about how difficult it is to turn the altitude knobs on my HEQ5 Pro, I wonder what kind of meaty and expensive mechanism would need to be added as an after-market solution.  Given that we now have tools like SharpCap that can help us polar align in probably less than ten minutes, I'm not sure that the benefit would outweigh the cost.

andrea tasselli:
AP is as difficult as it needs to be. And for those who would only care for the pretty picture I say to them: get a Hubble poster and frame it.

I don't think so. Many things are easier to do than is currently the case. 

This starts with the many different standards for tubes and plugs and extends to the processing of the images. If everything was good, there would be no more improvements - but fortunately there are. 

And Hubble posters are great, but it's all about self-shot images. There are unbeatable professional photos of the Colosseum, too, but still every tourist takes his own photos. Mostly with the camera automatic. It's just that not all people are enthusiastic about the creative process, some just want to achieve a beautiful result themselves without having to spend months learning the technique beforehand.

AP is as difficult as it needs to be. And for those who would only care for the pretty picture I say to them: get a Hubble poster and frame it.

 I’m not sure if astrophotography needs a certain technical difficulty or level before it is to be enjoyed by someone. 

there is a lot of enjoyment to be had from things even if you don’t do it the “difficult” way.
 Or we should all be sitting here, manually guiding, manually exposing on a film camera, without go-to systems. 

There is nothing wrong with wanting to make certain jobs easier. When I started, i used the dials and coordinates to find my targets (frustrations…) now I use platesolving and GoTo, and i won’t look down on someone who went to GoTo straight away. (Especially now with the star adventurer gti, go for it!)The same way i don’t look different at someone who uses certain methods of polar alignment.

 i’d say it’s fair to say that, if someone has reached the point where he/she is willing and considering to spend $xxx on an automated polar alignment, he/she is probably in the hobby long enough to do a good enough polar aligment on their own. And even if they can’t, so be it.

the topic here is about polar alignment. A somewhat “easy “task that ads very little to the difficulty of astrophotography.  
Polar alignment only involves “accuracy”. And that takes time. Not really “skill” when using certain methods.

So i wouldn’t put the threshold there on wether or not someone is “allowed” to enjoy this hobby, or is only allowed to look at hubble pictures.there can still be pride your own image and enjoyment in this hobby, even with goto, live stacking, platesolving and more.

 The challenge and difficulty can still be found elsewhere by large mosaics, hours and hours of exposures. Mixing exposures from different filters, and star colours and loads of other elements. That’s where I get my enjoyment and challenge. Not by admiring my 0.1 accurate manual polar alignment. 

 I simply find it a little weird that there isn’t much of a market for the automation of it. As it seems the “logical” next step in what mounts will be capable of. Hence the topic.

But, would agree with most that it’s a complex thing to realise. At least for all mounts. But i wouldn’t be surprised if ZWO comes with options in the future with their mounts.

I'd assure anyone that if they really want they can get their all-singing all-dancing auto-polar alignment add-on. Just pay me and I'll do it. Ain't gonna come cheap though. Otherwise, with today's tools, PA is a breeze compared to when I started, peering in the EP crosshairs for 10s of minutes to shave off a couple of primes. if there is a thing they should automate is collimation, that's something that is quite difficult even for experienced users. Or make decent mirror cell the default not an off-market upgrade. Or better mounts, for the heck of it!

Sean van Drogen:
Mounts that need PA every session are also the ones that tend to be designed for portability and low weight.

I think this is the key issue. But, one can actually have the best of both worlds. I have a low end mount (EQ6R), but I leave it outside all the time and it stays in PA needing only a tweak each session. It's never further than a couple of arcminutes out (even after changing scopes - which always amazes me). A bit of grease on the alt and az bolts and NINA's superb 3PPA plugin, it's really a very simple process and takes a minute or two. Personally, I doubt I'd want to pay extra for auto-PA.