Broadband Imaging and Moonlight

Tony GondolaAnthony (Tony) JohnsonAnderl
32 replies703 views
Anderl avatar

Servus,

is there a definite answer to the question if and when moonlight broadband is

1. worth it and
2. if heavy moonlight broadband data could even degrade the whole stack?

i am imaging a galaxie right now and i have little interest in getting sho data on it. sadly the moon is very bright right now and the effect on single lrgb frames is easily seeable. that leaves me with the options of shooting something else, stop ap until the moon is less influential again or just go for lrgb anyway.
i don´t really care if signal acquisition takes longer under given moonlight but there is one thing that bothers me, could the moon luminance frames actually destroy the rest of my lum stack? e.g. making it impossible to show faint stuff like ifn that would be visible without the moonlight diluted frames?

cs
Anderl


John avatar

dont imaging i nthe same area as the moon.

im now only do objects in the north, because the moon is in the south.

i only use a uv/ir filter, with good flats etc its ok. there is enough good broadband objects in the north, Cepheus has much, Cygnus also.

Here in the north the sun almost not go down anymore, so broadband is limited to hours or so.

Good idea is objects like M13.

Tobiasz avatar

Hi,

  1. Depends on the effort you have to invest to start imaging. Do you have a semi permanent setup that only has to be turned on to shoot? Then I would do it. If you’re mobile like me, it’s not worth it in my opinion.

  2. Depends on your stacking program and the measurement algorithms. I throw everthing I have into PI WeightedBatchPreProcessing and let Pixinsight decide with “PSF Signal Weight”. Worse nights have less weight and therefore less impact on the stack.

Regards

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Anderl avatar

Tobiasz · May 25, 2026 at 04:43 PM

Hi,

  1. Depends on the effort you have to invest to start imaging. Do you have a semi permanent setup that only has to be turned on to shoot? Then I would do it. If you’re mobile like me, it’s not worth it in my opinion.

  2. Depends on your stacking program and the measurement algorithms. I throw everthing I have into PI WeightedBatchPreProcessing and let Pixinsight decide with “PSF Signal Weight”. Worse nights have less weight and therefore less impact on the stack.

Regards

little effort necessary. my setup is somewhat semi permanent.

  1. still the question remains. would you maybe get a better result by not throwing all the frames in? i had an project containing only ha and oiii and a few oiii frames which included cirrus clouds have made it impossible to bring out any oiii at all.
    clouds are not moonlight though…

Tobiasz avatar

I mean you can test it with stacking all nights or excluding the moon nights and see for yourself.

AstroGadac avatar

If you image in low Bortle then not worth it, as in 1h of data in low moon you will probably get better SNR than an entire night with a full moon.

If you live in Bortle 8/9 then image away, as long as your target is not too close to the moon.

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Tony Gondola avatar

You can consider Moonlight to be another form of light pollution as it has pretty much the same effect. Now ask yourself, would you drive to a remote location with worse light pollution than you have at home? Of course you wouldn’t. If you can see the effect in your images then it’s too much. Just don’t do it. Shoot narrowband, bright lucky imaging targets, the Moon itself, anything that’s not as effected. IMO, it’s just not worth it.

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Anderl avatar

Tony Gondola · May 25, 2026 at 05:37 PM

You can consider Moonlight to be another form of light pollution as it has pretty much the same effect. Now ask yourself, would you drive to a remote location with worse light pollution than you have at home? Of course you wouldn’t. If you can see the effect in your images then it’s too much. Just don’t do it. Shoot narrowband, bright lucky imaging targets, the Moon itself, anything that’s not as effected. IMO, it’s just not worth it.

Hey tony,

I can clearly see the difference between frames where cars drove by versus those without, as well as between images taken under a 20% moon and a completely dark sky. I’m confident I could even detect differences in frames captured while a funfair is running 10 km away compared to when it’s not.

Do you think adding 100h of quality lum data from bortle 7 skies to 1h of data of the same setup from bortle 1 would be a good thing? Neutral? Maybe even harmful if the goal is to bring out faint stuff?

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bigCatAstro avatar

It has never worked out for me due to the inevitably that Moonlight will expose all the flaws with my imaging train. Strange gradients and flats not calibrating correctly have been a couple of headaches I’ve experienced when shooting when the Moon is over 50% luminosity.

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Tony Gondola avatar

Anderl · May 25, 2026, 05:53 PM

Tony Gondola · May 25, 2026 at 05:37 PM

You can consider Moonlight to be another form of light pollution as it has pretty much the same effect. Now ask yourself, would you drive to a remote location with worse light pollution than you have at home? Of course you wouldn’t. If you can see the effect in your images then it’s too much. Just don’t do it. Shoot narrowband, bright lucky imaging targets, the Moon itself, anything that’s not as effected. IMO, it’s just not worth it.

Hey tony,

I can clearly see the difference between frames where cars drove by versus those without, as well as between images taken under a 20% moon and a completely dark sky. I’m confident I could even detect differences in frames captured while a funfair is running 10 km away compared to when it’s not.

Do you think adding 100h of quality lum data from bortle 7 skies to 1h of data of the same setup from bortle 1 would be a good thing? Neutral? Maybe even harmful if the goal is to bring out faint stuff?

What I know is that the better the data, the better the result. I would hope that you are culling bad frames as a matter of course. In the end, it’s up to you. I don’t shoot below 60 deg. elevation, even on dark nights. It’s just the way I like to work.

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Nikita K avatar

There is a wonderful planning tool called Telescopius. If you find your target there and put you location and desired date, it will show you if imaging in broadband make sense. Its algo takes into account how far the target is from the moon, location and the moon phase. Great point to start from.

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Adam Block avatar

There is element to this question that hasn’t been addressed. The question of “is it worth it” for broadband imagery can be answered in a semi-quantitative way. Almost all stacking algorithms will assign weights to images. The sky brightness decreases the S/N under a bright moon (the sky itself adds photon noise). If you were to take data all under the bright sky- then the data would be given nearly equal weights and the time spent acquiring the data would go into the final stacked frame in equal measure.

However, if you stack frames taken with a bright moon and under dark skies- you should ask yourself what is the weight being given to the moon data? In PixInsight you can directly see this answer. It depends on the brightness of the sky (and it does have a color dependence since the sky is blue)- but roughly (ignoring light pollution) when using the default weighting scheme (PSF Signal Weight) each moonlit image might only be worth 20% of a moonless (dark sky) image. You have to take 5 images to achieve what a single frame under dark skies gets- and this estimate might be optimistic.

This is why narrowband images- specifically red (Ha and SII)- are reasonably in the moonlight. The background sky is still quite dark. However, above still applies even to narrowband images. If you compare Ha data taken under dark night skies- it will still be assigned higher weights.

-adam

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Tony Gondola avatar

Adam Block · May 26, 2026, 09:22 PM

There is element to this question that hasn’t been addressed. The question of “is it worth it” for broadband imagery can be answered in a semi-quantitative way. Almost all stacking algorithms will assign weights to images. The sky brightness decreases the S/N under a bright moon (the sky itself adds photon noise). If you were to take data all under the bright sky- then the data would be given nearly equal weights and the time spent acquiring the data would go into the final stacked frame in equal measure.

However, if you stack frames taken with a bright moon and under dark skies- you should ask yourself what is the weight being given to the moon data? In PixInsight you can directly see this answer. It depends on the brightness of the sky (and it does have a color dependence since the sky is blue)- but roughly (ignoring light pollution) when using the default weighting scheme (PSF Signal Weight) each moonlit image might only be worth 20% of a moonless (dark sky) image. You have to take 5 images to achieve what a single frame under dark skies gets- and this estimate might be optimistic.

This is why narrowband images- specifically red (Ha and SII)- are reasonably in the moonlight. The background sky is still quite dark. However, above still applies even to narrowband images. If you compare Ha data taken under dark night skies- it will still be assigned higher weights.

-adam

So not exactly a waste of time but a questionable use of it.

Alex Nicholas avatar

Your image will be better if you do not include data from nights with moon interference. How much so will depend on the % moon phase, and angular separation between the moon and your target? If you’re imaging a target in the east with a 25% moon > 60~80° away, go for it. If you’re imaging with a 100% moon that is < 50° away from your target, I wouldn’t bother.

if your target is a dark nebula, faint reflection nebula or other relatively extended object, I personally wouldn’t bother anything past 10% moon phase, and I’d want the moon on the opposite side of the meridian from my target… That’s just me.. I’m already fighting a fairly strong gradient from light polution from the south, the last thing I need is a western or eastern gradient coming from the moon too!

If your broadband target has a Ha or SII component, use the moonlit nights to capture narrowband data to incorperate into your LRGB image.

Furthermore, I find galaxy images FAR easier to deal with moon influence than extended objects like dust/nebulosity… and if you’re REALLY itching to shoot something during a higher moon phase, shoot star clusters.. They are usually pretty simple objects to control gradients in.

Moonlit nights are great for narrowband targets, testing new things, tweaking and improving your setup, guiding, software configurations etc… They are simply not suited to broadband imaging unless you have no other option.

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Anderl avatar

Thanks to all of you.

As i have already wasted time doing lrgb on my target i will post a version with and without the moonlight frames.

Bill McLaughlin avatar

Something I would point out is that if RGB images (not L) are being used ONLY for the stars, then it will matter little assuming the stars are not part of the main subject and the RGB contributes little or nothing to the object itself.

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John Hayes avatar

First, I agree with Adam that you can use weighted averaging to deal with the moonlit sky, but I want to add a bit more to what he said. Moonlight adds sky glow, which adds an unwanted signal to the object and it raises the background level. The overall effect is to reduce the contrast of the image. You can always regain that contrast when you process the image but you do so at the expense of a decrease in SNR. That means that in order to maintain a given SNR, you have to increase the total exposure time. Signal weighting during stacking is the statistically correct way to deal with varying SNR across the stack but the net result is the same. So, take away number one is: If you want to achieve a high SNR when the moon is out, you need more exposure time.

Unfortunately, the moon doesn’t simply add an angle invariant brightness to the whole sky. As everyone knows, the sky is brightest near the moon, falling off as you get further away. But, there’s a subtle problem because the rate of brightness fall-off varies with 1+ cos²(theta) and with color due to the way that the atmosphere scatters with wavelength. (There are also some polarization issues but we’ll ignore that effect for now.) The daytime sky is blue because of Rayleigh scattering from oxygen and nitrogen molecules, which depends on the inverse wavelength to the fourth power. That inverse power of four strongly favors shorter wavelengths and is a powerful generator of color gradients. So, when you shoot RGB data with the moon in the sky, you are likely to get terrible color gradients—particularly if you shoot over many nights with the moon at different angles to your object. When you stack all that data, you will almost certainly find high-order color gradients that are challenging to remove. You’ll have a similar gradient problem with your Lum data but without the added problem of underlying color issues.

So, what to do? First, I shut down my RGB imaging efforts within about 5-6 days on either side of the full moon, and even then, I try to avoid imaging anywhere near the moon in the sky. Second, I’m okay shooting Lum data to within about 3-4 days of the full moon as long as I can maintain at least 40 degrees separation to the moon. Again, it’s important to take more Lum data when the moon is out and you’ll have to be prepared to remove gradients. So, if you are careful about how you manage it, you can shoot LRGB with a “fair” amount of moonlight.

John

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Dave Erickson avatar

Well first I agree with both John and Adam. Although for me it isn’t worth deep imaging while the moon is up.

Just for fun here is actual measurements of the moons impact on Bortle 1 skies with the SQM pointed at Polaris. The verticle axis is SQM the horizontal axis is time. Each of the colored lines is one days data. The squiggly lines at the bottom are cloudy night data during the measurement series, the sky darkness improves as a cloud passes in front of the moon. Measurements started and ended at roughly Civil Twilight. SQM of ~22.5 prior to moon rise at 3rd quarter gets shorter for each successive night as Fill Moon Approaches. As expected when the moon is up at civil twilight the sky is brighter…

image.png

Compare the data above with the +-5 days around New Moon

image.png

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John Hayes avatar

Thanks for that data Dave! That’s really good stuff and it’s nice to see the quantitative effect on SQM from the lunar sky glow. It is certainly true that the closer you can operate to the new moon, the better it is!

John

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andrea tasselli avatar

Airmass counts too so in certain circumstances (high northern or southern latitude of the observing site within 1 month either side of the summer or winter *if you’re down-under* solstice) then is better to image around full moon than it is at 1st or last quarter.

Anthony (Tony) Johnson avatar

My skies are too bright to start with. The cloudy nights are too many to count, and when its clear they actually suck, because skies these days for the most part just suck, at least here by Saint Louis. So no I don’t wait for the new moon and photograph any night its clear no matter what the phase angle is. I just use a light pollution filter and shoot at least 50-60 degrees away from the moon if its full. If you can then do, but where I live you can’t. Even when I get a fair night I’m always deleting subs because something drifted through the frame and ruined some of the subs. So the moon phase doesn’t even figure into my astrophotography.

Tony Gondola avatar

I think there should be a special award for anyone who can produce a decent image under conditions like that.

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Anthony (Tony) Johnson avatar

📷 IMG_9238.pngIMG_9238.pngscope night for Saint Charles Mo. so yeah I think I’ll wait for new moon.

Gilmour Dickson avatar

86 % moon, in Scorpius, (so the moon is not that far away). If you don’t try you don’t get: about 8 hours broadband with a 416mm FL scope and 2600mc camera. B1 skies, but B1 also has the moon….

📷 Moth Wing Cluster Moon TestMoth Wing Cluster Moon Test

https://app.astrobin.com/i/2b9y6n/

Dave Erickson avatar

I lived in Huntington Beach (HB) California home of the marine layer so I have empathy for those with unfavorable astro weather. HB was the inspiration for traveler imaging and remote imaging for me. Its been a long path but worth the effort and frustration. This is never going to be easy if you DYI, each step along the path has been met with its own challenges. And what makes it worth the effort, when things come together and you get an image…

A few years back we moved from the beach inland to be closer to the grandkids. Now in Bortle 5-6 skies.

I now can test instruments from the backyard when the moon is up.

Clearly not Broad Band imaging but:

Here is an image of the Veil Nebula taken during the full moon. This is (1) 360" exposure with a 5nm Halpha and (1) 360" exposure with a 5nm OIII.

Imaged from my back yard, Taken 7/20/2024 at 10:40pm PDT... Using an 18" focal length F/4 areal recon lens astrograph. Processed using the modern toolset in Pixinsight augmented by the RC tools, noiseX, blurX and starx... Image when conditions allow and meet your criteria.VeilHaOiii_1200.jpg

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