Artifacts in stacked images with C9.25 XLT and reducer setup

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oernulfs avatar

Hi. I’m currently using a c9.25 xlt with an Atik 383L mono camera andt Atik filterwheel. I use a celestron 0,63x reducer. Also I am using a moonlite focusmotor.

I connect the camera to the reducer using different extension tubes to aquire the desired 105mm (or so) distance from reducer to sensor. Then I slide this set up into the focuser. The reducer will then be placed quite far behind the primary focus at the back end of the telscope.

Using this set up produces different kinds of artifacts in stacked images. Se attached screen shot.
(Placing the reducer inside the focuser increases the distance from reducer to sensor to about 120mm and produces very destorted stars in the outer part of the image and is not an improvement of this set up.)

Has ayone experienced similar problems with artifacts using this type of scope and reducer? If so, do you have a solution to my problem? Will it help to screw the reducer directly to the scope (and getting rid of the focuser)? (and maybe use a focus cube on the main focusing knob to maintain fine focusing).

(My hypothesis is: the reducer is too far behind the primary focus and/or the primary mirror shifts when I produce flats using my flat panel by pointing the telescope vertically - and thus in another direction than the one i imaged in).📷 image.pngimage.png

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Alex Nicholas avatar

Thats over correcting flats i reckon… that would be my first check. Try getting some flats with a lower average adu counts and some with a slightly higher average adu counts and re-calibrate and stack the data.

oernulfs avatar

Thank you. I will try that, i.e if it is exposure time for the flats you think that I need to adjust. I have used 5s/6s for flats in L. That places the max histogram value at about half way to max. I will try to avoid too short exposure times because the camera has a mechanical shutter that can cause a shadow in the flats.

I have seen others report reflections around bright stars using a reducer (celestron or starizona) but I have not seen anyone describing exactly these kind of artifacts….

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HR_Maurer avatar

.

Jan Erik Vallestad avatar

Have you tried without the reducer? It kind of looks like reflections from the glass elements within it. Especially because there seem to be several circles. Flats won’t help if that’s the case.

I had a similar but very severe issue with my .7x reducer for the Edge 8HD.

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oernulfs avatar

HR_Maurer · May 18, 2026, 04:54 PM

im not sure if i can add some valuable thoughts. Shutter speed isnt the problem i guess, since you’re already aware of its limitations.
However, if i look at your example image, there are these dark circular patterns on the left. I also see bright edges at the right, which might be circular too. It could be due to internal reflections, and some sort of tilt.
However, something else just came into my mind: it could also be the result of “etaloning”, i.e. a nonuniform coating on the CCD or some other element causing interference patterns. In that case, these patterns should be reproducible per filter, and also appear on other telescopes. I’m not sure if i experienced that on my 383L back in the days, but i had it on an IMX183 some years ago.

Thanks for the response. I take it into consideration. I still think a slight mirror shift can be the cause (the pattern did not appear when shooting through r, g and b and the scope was already pointing quite close to vertical, and I take flats with scope pointing (almost) vertically. If there is an issue with coating, I guess there is not much I can do. Regards Ørnulf

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oernulfs avatar

Jan Erik Vallestad · May 18, 2026, 05:10 PM

Have you tried without the reducer? It kind of looks like reflections from the glass elements within it. Especially because there seem to be several circles. Flats won’t help if that’s the case.

I had a similar but very severe issue with my .7x reducer for the Edge 8HD.

Thanks for your answer. I know you have adviced to this in another forum…. No I have not tried it yet. I like the FOV the set up gives, so I will not get rid of the reducer quite yet. In that other forum you mentioned something about “resampling” an image taken at f10. I must admit that I did not understand that information…

What do you think about using my zwo asi 6200mm at f10 on the c9.25? (also something I have not ried yet)
Regards Ørnulf

Tony Gondola avatar

It does look like a flat calibration issue to me. I don’t think it has anything to do with reducer spacing but more to do with something changing between your light frames and your flat frames. I suppose mirror flop could cause that but again, I don’t think so. Here’s a simple test you can do. With the scope pointing near the zenith, take a series of subs, maybe 30 min. worth. Then, without changing a thing make a set of flats. To eliminate issue with your flat panel. power down the mount with the OTA still looking up, freezing it’s attitude. Wait for just before sunrise and make a set of sky flats. If that calibrates properly. Just remember that exactly the same means just that. Dew shields, focus position, filter, camera offset and gain, everything needs to be the same. I even bring up the cooling just to be sure. The only thing that changes is the exposure time needed to get the histogram peak between 35% and 50%.

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Jan Erik Vallestad avatar

oernulfs · May 18, 2026, 06:23 PM

Thanks for your answer. I know you have adviced to this in another forum…. No I have not tried it yet. I like the FOV the set up gives, so I will not get rid of the reducer quite yet. In that other forum you mentioned something about “resampling” an image taken at f10. I must admit that I did not understand that information…

What do you think about using my zwo asi 6200mm at f10 on the c9.25? (also something I have not ried yet)
Regards Ørnulf

I understand with regards to the FOV, but if it is internal reflections from the reducer there’s not much to do. Such reflections will ruin every image you take. It’s well worth it to do a test, if only to rule it out.

Resampling is done in post where you change the pixel dimensions, effectively enlarging or (as in your case) shrinking them. This is what we refer to as software binning. If your mount is capable enough to image within the required image scale/RMS it’s not an issue - but if not a downsample will be beneficial to avoid oversampling and increase SNR. In short; You downscale your image, combining four pixels to one.

It depends on your setup. I think the imaging circle is large enough to support full frame without the reducer, the reducer reduces the imaging circle (obviously). Then there’s the matter of guiding. I’m not sure if an OAG would suit full frame as it needs to protrude quite a bit to get enough light, just a thought as I don’t know for sure. So I reckon it depends.

I think both my Edge 8HD and the 9.25 shares the same imaging circle natively (42mm), and with APS-C I have to keep the OAG on the outside of the sensor area, closer to the edge of the tube which reduces the amount of light the guide sensor gets. Getting enough light to the guide sensor can be a pain depending on where you want to image. If the OAG casts a shadow on the sensor, flats might be able to fix a bit of it - but not if it’s too much of an intrusion.

I’m sure people are imaging with full frame though. Cropping is always an option alongside downsampling (if needed).

Edit: the number of pixels combined or expanded is of course dependant on how much you rescale the image, i usually do bin2 go keep within the necessary image scale. But with an EQ8 you might not need to.

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oernulfs avatar

Jan Erik Vallestad · May 18, 2026, 11:28 PM

oernulfs · May 18, 2026, 06:23 PM

Thanks for your answer. I know you have adviced to this in another forum…. No I have not tried it yet. I like the FOV the set up gives, so I will not get rid of the reducer quite yet. In that other forum you mentioned something about “resampling” an image taken at f10. I must admit that I did not understand that information…

What do you think about using my zwo asi 6200mm at f10 on the c9.25? (also something I have not ried yet)
Regards Ørnulf

I understand with regards to the FOV, but if it is internal reflections from the reducer there’s not much to do. Such reflections will ruin every image you take. It’s well worth it to do a test, if only to rule it out.

Resampling is done in post where you change the pixel dimensions, effectively enlarging or (as in your case) shrinking them. This is what we refer to as software binning. If your mount is capable enough to image within the required image scale/RMS it’s not an issue - but if not a downsample will be beneficial to avoid oversampling and increase SNR. In short; You downscale your image, combining four pixels to one.

It depends on your setup. I think the imaging circle is large enough to support full frame without the reducer, the reducer reduces the imaging circle (obviously). Then there’s the matter of guiding. I’m not sure if an OAG would suit full frame as it needs to protrude quite a bit to get enough light, just a thought as I don’t know for sure. So I reckon it depends.

I think both my Edge 8HD and the 9.25 shares the same imaging circle natively (42mm), and with APS-C I have to keep the OAG on the outside of the sensor area, closer to the edge of the tube which reduces the amount of light the guide sensor gets. Getting enough light to the guide sensor can be a pain depending on where you want to image. If the OAG casts a shadow on the sensor, flats might be able to fix a bit of it - but not if it’s too much of an intrusion.

I’m sure people are imaging with full frame though. Cropping is always an option alongside downsampling (if needed).

Edit: the number of pixels combined or expanded is of course dependant on how much you rescale the image, i usually do bin2 go keep within the necessary image scale. But with an EQ8 you might not need to.

Thank you! If I (we) only had more time under the night sky to experiment. When fall comes I will try without reducer, and maybe I will try with the zwo. I will also investigate the resampling in pi.

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Marcin Cikała avatar

Hi.

This is definitely a problem with the reducer. Despite the declared large imaging disc covering the APS-C size detector it is impossible to shoot using KAF-8300 or almost equivalent IMX294 sensors. A ring-shaped highlight will always appear in the corners.

Take some photos without the reducer. Do not worry too much about the star shape or ideal focus. Reduce, combine and see what happens.

Best regards. m.

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oernulfs avatar

Marcin Cikała · May 19, 2026, 10:05 AM

Hi.

This is definitely a problem with the reducer. Despite the declared large imaging disc covering the APS-C size detector it is impossible to shoot using KAF-8300 or almost equivalent IMX294 sensors. A ring-shaped highlight will always appear in the corners.

Take some photos without the corrector. Do not worry too much about the star shape or ideal focus. Reduce, combine and see what happens.

Best regards. m.

Thank you. It seems that the majority of the responders points at the reducer. I will try it., even though it narrows down (litterarly) the kind of objects I can image with this telescope and camera. I will look into the posibility to use my zwo asi 6200 in f10. Maybe that will satisfy my fov-wish.

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HR_Maurer avatar

Yesterday evening ive been posting a comment, suggesting "etaloning" as another possible root cause for the circular artifact. When i came in this morning, i found it hasnt been published, but was waiting for sone sort of evaluation for whatever AI reason. I was upset and deleted my comment, by replacing it with a dot. This has then been approved. Great job!
But still, even if an etaloning artifact doesnt neccessarily have to be circular or symmetric, it might still be an explanation.