Fornax light track 2 question

Guitographerandrea tasselli
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Guitographer avatar
Hi  I was wondering if anyone has had any experience using the Fornax light track 2. I’m reading on Astro forums that I shouldn’t expect to shoot any longer than 300 maybe 400 mm even when using the extortionate counter balance kit!
ideally I would like to get up to about 700mm, this is my ideal set up:  Zwo cooled apsc camera, Williams Optics Gt81 1V 
The Fornax LT advertising suggests that 500mm is the limit unbalanced and up to a 1000mm balanced but that’s not what I’m reading on user forums.  Can anyone help me with this please?
andrea tasselli avatar
Are you going to guide or not? And how do you plan to PA it? Makes a lot of difference. My experience is that it is good up to 500mm if carefully balanced and exposure kept to within 3min. Didn't try anything longer. Nor anything heavier than 3 kg. As they say YMMV.
Arun H avatar
I have used the Fornax Lightrack II. My limit was 2 minutes with a 400mm lens on a 4.3 micron pixel size camera. PA was with the Polemaster. It has a guide port, but I believe the guiding is in RA only. The biggest issue I would see with 1000mm or even 700mm is going to be flex and stability of that entire setup rather than tracking accuracy or even polar alignment. At 400mm it became really sensitive to minor wind and flex issues. I don't know that adding a counterweight would fix that, but I've never tried it with one.
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andrea tasselli avatar
I have used the Fornax Lightrack II. My limit was 2 minutes with a 400mm lens on a 4.3 micron pixel size camera. PA was with the Polemaster. It has a guide port, but I believe the guiding is in RA only. The biggest issue I would see with 1000mm or even 700mm is going to be flex and stability of that entire setup rather than tracking accuracy or even polar alignment. At 400mm it became really sensitive to minor wind and flex issues. I don't know that adding a counterweight would fix that, but I've never tried it with one.

Forgot to make it clear in my previous post: it was with the counterbalance system in place. I wouldn't think about going heavier than 1/1.5 kg or longer than 300mm without one.
Guitographer avatar
Thank you Arun some clear information at last! I think that really confirms my doubts about Fornax and all the conflicting information out there.  One of the reasons I chose this was the Trevor Jones review, I thought he was supposed to be honest! 
Never mind I’ll think of something else. 

thank you
Guitographer avatar
Are you going to guide or not? And how do you plan to PA it? Makes a lot of difference. My experience is that it is good up to 500mm if carefully balanced and exposure kept to within 3min. Didn't try anything longer. Nor anything heavier than 3 kg. 


Andrea  thank you for responding.  I’m using the Polemaster which I find really good until it’s starts wobbling at the end!
as far as guiding is concerned, the general consensus is that it’s so precise it doesn’t require guiding but I would if I could achieve better focal distance.
Guitographer avatar
andrea tasselli:
I have used the Fornax Lightrack II. My limit was 2 minutes with a 400mm lens on a 4.3 micron pixel size camera. PA was with the Polemaster. It has a guide port, but I believe the guiding is in RA only. The biggest issue I would see with 1000mm or even 700mm is going to be flex and stability of that entire setup rather than tracking accuracy or even polar alignment. At 400mm it became really sensitive to minor wind and flex issues. I don't know that adding a counterweight would fix that, but I've never tried it with one.

Forgot to make it clear in my previous post: it was with the counterbalance system in place. I wouldn't think about going heavier than 1/1.5 kg or longer than 300mm without one.

*** Type your reply here **you pictures are incredible!*
Guitographer avatar
andrea tasselli:
I have used the Fornax Lightrack II. My limit was 2 minutes with a 400mm lens on a 4.3 micron pixel size camera. PA was with the Polemaster. It has a guide port, but I believe the guiding is in RA only. The biggest issue I would see with 1000mm or even 700mm is going to be flex and stability of that entire setup rather than tracking accuracy or even polar alignment. At 400mm it became really sensitive to minor wind and flex issues. I don't know that adding a counterweight would fix that, but I've never tried it with one.

Forgot to make it clear in my previous post: it was with the counterbalance system in place. I wouldn't think about going heavier than 1/1.5 kg or longer than 300mm without one.

*** Type your reply your pictures are incredible too!here ***
andrea tasselli avatar
Andrea thank you for responding. I’m using the Polemaster which I find really good until it’s starts wobbling at the end!
as far as guiding is concerned, the general consensus is that it’s so precise it doesn’t require guiding but I would if I could achieve better focal distance.


Let's assume it's a relatively compact system such as the one you mentioned at the start of the thread. The key to a stable tracking is accurate balancing  on the two main scope axes, which means not only balancing along the length of the tube but across the width of the tube so the two halves are pretty much the same. And the a firm grip which can only by achieved durably with the counterbalancing system, expensive as it seems. Guiding is not needed if the focal length is modest but the key parameter is the ability to counteract friction slipping which isn't always guaranteed NOT to happen as the tracks moves from one end to the other. In other words, the whole system working as advertised is predicated upon friction always being able to counteract gravity load as the target moves across the sky.
Guitographer avatar
Ok but I’m not really sure how I would achieve this with the Fornax I’m thinking this particular type of tracker is unique compared to a standard eq mount but I do get what you are saying, (it’s going to be hit and miss!)
I wish I could just use a larger mount but I have back issues hence I got the Fornax! I’ll just have to cut my garment according to the cloth!
so if I got the red cat 51 and used a Zwo cooled apsc camera do you think I would get away with it?  that would be around 450 mm including crop or should I just get the skywatcher guided? 
I’ve had a look at your work and found it truly amazing, these questions must seem ridiculous!
andrea tasselli avatar
Ok but I’m not really sure how I would achieve this with the Fornax I’m thinking this particular type of tracker is unique compared to a standard eq mount but I do get what you are saying, (it’s going to be hit and miss!)
I wish I could just use a larger mount but I have back issues hence I got the Fornax! I’ll just have to cut my garment according to the cloth!
so if I got the red cat 51 and used a Zwo cooled apsc camera do you think I would get away with it?  that would be around 450 mm including crop or should I just get the skywatcher guided? 
I’ve had a look at your work and found it truly amazing, these questions must seem ridiculous!

Thanks for your kind words. No question is really ridiculous so keep asking!
The Recat 51 is 250mm in focal length (the crop factor means nothing in our context) and weight just above 1.5 kg. It is short and stubby and you should be able to use it even without the counterbalancing system. Unfortunately I can't test anyting of similar size as there are weeks of poor weather forecast here. The key here is to make sure that you avoid putting it on a ball-head attachment which are prone to lose grip. Much better is to get one of those geared pan and tilt head, such as this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125103213055?hash=item1d20bb89ff:g:-0EAAOSwI8th5Ak4
The other is to get it balanced to the RA axis so the the load on the roller is nearly constant and minimal across the whole length of the run
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Guitographer avatar
I’m not sure what you meant by the crop factor doesn’t matter, are you saying that an apsc size sensor won’t increase the focal length by a factor of 1.5x? Is the principal different from dedicated camera to dslr camera?
you also said I could use the red cat possibly without counter balance then surely if correctly balanced I would be able to use the Williams Optics Gt81 1V with the counter balance as it specifies 12 kg Pay load!
andrea tasselli avatar
Also, may  I suggest you get to look into the work published by Chris Woodhouse with a chapter on the same mount:

http://www.digitalastrophotography.co.uk/
Arun H avatar
I did try at one point a geared head system like what Andrea describes, hoping to remove enough flex to be able to go past 400mm, but I couldn't, not on a consistent basis.

One issue with the Lightrack is that the entire system is on a camera tripod. If you polar align the system and then try to frame the object, you have to be very careful not to move the tripod even minutely, or you lose PA. You can frame and polar align, but then you lose accurate framing.

The other issue was that the altitude adjustment on their mount which attaches to your camera tripod is very difficult to adjust minutely to the accuracy needed to get perfect polar  alignment. This became quite frustrating at long focal lengths like 400mm. 

All of this is a different way of saying that the system works well with short focal lengths, but quickly gets cumbersome as you go longer.  And unless they're doing something different, you are limited to 100 minutes or so before you have to reset the system and reframe the object (and likely redo polar alignment).

I agree that the Redcat 51 will be a nice fit for this, but you should have not very high expectations of going much higher in focal length.
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andrea tasselli avatar
I’m not sure what you meant by the crop factor doesn’t matter, are you saying that an apsc size sensor won’t increase the focal length by a factor of 1.5x? Is the principal different from dedicated camera to dslr camera?
you also said I could use the red cat possibly without counter balance then surely if correctly balanced I would be able to use the Williams Optics Gt81 1V with the counter balance as it specifies 12 kg Pay load!

It does not increase focal length at all. It never does. Focal length is fixed by the lens system you're using unless it's a zoom lens but that it's a different matter. The crop factor for APS-C should be taken at its litteral meaning: it crops the field of view as compared to full frame sensor or 36mm camera. That's all. In landscape photography it doesn't make any sense to pretend to increase the focal length to get the same FOV as compared to a full frame camera since the subject is at infinity and doesn't get any closer.

And yes, with the counterbalance system you should be able to get the GT81 to work without many issues (apart balancing the whole lot around the RA axis but that is a given).
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Guitographer avatar
Thanks Arun, I guess this is why I’m so confused about the whole Astro business, every one’s experience is different with the same equipment!  At least now I get the basic principals thanks to you and Andrea. Thank you I really appreciate it!
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Guitographer avatar
Thank you for your help Andrea I really appreciate it, maybe I should take up knitting or something! smile
andrea tasselli avatar
did try at one point a geared head system like what Andrea describes, hoping to remove enough flex to be able to go past 400mm, but I couldn't, not on a consistent basis.

One issue with the Lightrack is that the entire system is on a camera tripod. If you polar align the system and then try to frame the object, you have to be very careful not to move the tripod even minutely, or you lose PA. You can frame and polar align, but then you lose accurate framing.

The other issue was that the altitude adjustment on their mount which attaches to your camera tripod is very difficult to adjust minutely to the accuracy needed to get perfect polar alignment. This became quite frustrating at long focal lengths like 400mm.

All of this is a different way of saying that the system works well with short focal lengths, but quickly gets cumbersome as you go longer. And unless they're doing something different, you are limited to 100 minutes or so before you have to reset the system and reframe the object (and likely redo polar alignment).

I agree that the Redcat 51 will be a nice fit for this, but you should have not very high expectations of going much higher in focal length.


Manfrotto geared heads are very very good in this albeit rather expensive but you get wat you paid for, me thinks.

It is also true about the casual photographic tripod but an heavy duty one (again, manfrotto amongst others) does not move easily. Best of all is to ditch the photographic tripod altogether and go for surveyor's tripods. In my experience they simply do not move on grass at all once put in place. Other sufaces may fare differently. But I agree that the most difficult thing is to get everything framed the way you may want it across the sky. The Gt81 450mm FL should be doable with the counterbalancing system which makes everything easier. What I find really difficult at those focal lengths is centering the subject by dead reckoning (if you don't have or can't use a proper finder).
andrea tasselli avatar
Thank you for your help Andrea I really appreciate it, maybe I should take up knitting or something!

My other half would agree with you about me taking up knitting instead of spending all the clear nights out!
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Arun H avatar
I actually used a Manfrotto geared head, and the tripod I used was a Slik Pro 700 - not a Manfrotto, but not a cheap one either. Whatever tripod you use, aside from being strong also has to be heavy, so it will not move accidentally as you are trying to frame an object and adjust the camera. I've never used a surveyor tripod.  

While I am stating the limitations of the system as I saw them, the fact is that I was able to get it to work at fairly long focal lengths (like 400mm) with some effort and practice. And it gave me good enough results that I continued in the hobby. I still have it and used it to take Neowise images with my camera and 400mm lens.

But using it made me realize that to get the results I really wanted, I'd have to go beyond portable trackers. It made me appreciate why good equatorial mounts and good tripods are constructed the way they are, and all the many things you have to get right to get good images!
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Guitographer avatar
I do have the official Fornax tripod recommended by them and I also have the FW 200 wedge, which is absolutely vile to move,it leaves imprints in your thumb!  I totally get what you mean about finding objects without disturbing the polar alignment, it’s impossible isn’t it!
ii leave the pole master on and re align at the end but as I said it just wobbles about and there’s nothing you can do but start the whole thing again, I hope they can come out with a bug fix soon.

thank you
andrea tasselli avatar
I also have the FW 200 wedge, which is absolutely vile to move,it leaves imprints in your thumb


I wonder why. Mine is buttery smooth once properly tuned.
Paul Dodd avatar
Hi  I was wondering if anyone has had any experience using the Fornax light track 2. I’m reading on Astro forums that I shouldn’t expect to shoot any longer than 300 maybe 400 mm even when using the extortionate counter balance kit!
ideally I would like to get up to about 700mm, this is my ideal set up:  Zwo cooled apsc camera, Williams Optics Gt81 1V 
The Fornax LT advertising suggests that 500mm is the limit unbalanced and up to a 1000mm balanced but that’s not what I’m reading on user forums.  Can anyone help me with this please?

I have only tried up to 400mm with the Fornax (unguided) - I don't think I'd try anything longer.

I would have thought that with a GT81 you'd need a slightly more robust mount. I use mine on a Celestron AVX - but I'm sure that any medium mount would do. I easily get three minute subs and could probably stretch it to five minutes with a little more care - that's guided, of course.
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Guitographer avatar
I have only tried up to 400mm with the Fornax (unguided) - I don't think I'd try anything longer.

I would have thought that with a GT81 you'd need a slightly more robust mount. I use mine on a Celestron AVX - but I'm sure that any medium mount would do. I easily get three minute subs and could probably stretch it to five minutes with a little more care - that's guided, of course

hi Paul  are you saying 400mm with or without counter balance ?
Paul Dodd avatar
hi Paul  are you saying 400mm with or without counter balance ?


Hi Mark, 400mm without counterbalance - I didn't like the price of the Fornax counterbalance ;-)

I've uploaded the resultant image:

M42 - The Great Nebula in Orion (DSLR, Fornax Mount)


This was 1337 10-second subs with a Nikon Z7 II and Nikon 70-200mm lens with 2 x teleconverter. No guiding.
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