Brian Boyle avatar

I have been trying to create wide-field (100 sq square degree+) mosaics for some time now. Although I have had some success, I am a little surprised by the lack of any good, easy tools in the various software suites. Particularly when compared to software in other areas; deconvolution, noise reduction, star reduction, gradient removal etc, etc.

For the ABC survey @James Tickner is writing a purpose built pakage for a mosaic of 500+ fields over the southern sky, but I thought I would check first just to see if there is something that we have missed.

My software writing experience is more than 30 years old, so I have to use ready-made tools. To date, I have found the best/easiest success with the mosaic mode in APP, it only works for up to 20 fields or so. It also fails for vert large areas, or areas near the pole. It is also a little bit of a “black box” so it can be difficult to tell what is going on, particularly with the astrometric solution.

PixInsight MosaicByCoordinates is extremely good, but the sister routine of PhotometricMosaic is rather cumbersome, only working a pair of fields at a time. It also doesn’t work well when the fields are rotated in xy with respect to one another, so it starts to fail with larger areas nearer the poles.

GradientMergeMosaic is just not very good.

Other more commercial packages are great eg PTGui, but really only work with stretched images - at which point frame-to-frame border matching becomes problematic.

What do others use out there. Any advice or tips?

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Jon Woodhead avatar

Hi Brian,

Are you using the latest version of APP (beta39)? I has a quote ‘much improved registration engine’ which apparently makes creation of larger mosaics easier?

That said I have personally not encountered any problems in past versions with the construction of large or many-panel mosaics using APP.

This one is very large (9 panels each 26 × 17 degrees):

large mosaic

and these involved large numbers of panels:

64 panel mosaic

21 panel mosaic

cheers, Jon

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Brian Boyle avatar

Hi John, Those mosaics are amazing. I use beta9, so I should update. Having said that my problems with APP have largely occurred for mosaics with 20+ panels and 1000 sq deg or greater. Perhaps I am just asking too much, but I will see what the newer version of APP can do.

My latest Vela Ha mosaic is here 9 fields, roughly 25 × 18 degrees.

https://app.astrobin.com/i/3htj0m/

Nevertheless, I have always thought it odd that this is not something PI can do a little better. [Again, this might just be my lack of awareness

Many thanks again

Brian

Jon Woodhead avatar

I think that you should be OK with the latest version of APP. I have never had any issues with the registration/stitching of large mosaics….it is more the control of gradients which adds to my already far-too-numerous grey hairs….especially when mosaic panels are obtained over many months with highly variable lighting conditions..🙂

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Jeff Parke avatar

I feel a bit out of my league responding here, as I have only experience with SeeStar S50 data. There is a Siril script written by Nazmus <https://app.astrobin.com/u/naztronomy> for smart telescopes recently. It does mosaics so much better than PixInsight for the types of data I’ve dealt with. Just toss all the subs at it and it sorts out the borders, integrating all the subs with feathering. After my own struggles with MosaicByCoordinates and GradientMergeMosaic, this feels like the cats meow/bees knees I had been hoping for.

https://app.astrobin.com/u/jeffparke?i=5h1594 is an result of using this tool. It’s not a huge amount outside of SeeStar FOV but still needed to be a mosaic. I had a collection of subs around the region, some using the SeeStar’s built-in mosaic builder, some of panes I had set. I didn’t even look at the data - just gave all the subs to the script, setting exclusion criteria for the script to toss out 15% of worst subs on 4 criteria. The result was easy to crop and bring to it’s colourful status in PixInsight.

I’m learning how to run the SeeStar with NINA and have a sequence of about 20 panes in the region around the Keyhole I want to run. Panes have 10% overlap but I will use a large drizzle for subs. I’ve tried a lesser region around Carina using Pixinsight and with less sophisticated choice of panes in the past with not great luck. I’ll try to post here if the rain stops and I get the 3-4 hours time time on target this should take.

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Oscar H. avatar
Try Image Composite Editor

note, it only works on stretched images, and I recommend not doing anymore stretching after stitching
Brian Boyle avatar

Jeff Parke · Feb 2, 2026 at 03:55 AM

I feel a bit out of my league responding here, as I have only experience with SeeStar S50 data. There is a Siril script written by Nazmus <https://app.astrobin.com/u/naztronomy> for smart telescopes recently. It does mosaics so much better than PixInsight for the types of data I’ve dealt with. Just toss all the subs at it and it sorts out the borders, integrating all the subs with feathering. After my own struggles with MosaicByCoordinates and GradientMergeMosaic, this feels like the cats meow/bees knees I had been hoping for.

https://app.astrobin.com/u/jeffparke?i=5h1594 is an result of using this tool. It’s not a huge amount outside of SeeStar FOV but still needed to be a mosaic. I had a collection of subs around the region, some using the SeeStar’s built-in mosaic builder, some of panes I had set. I didn’t even look at the data - just gave all the subs to the script, setting exclusion criteria for the script to toss out 15% of worst subs on 4 criteria. The result was easy to crop and bring to it’s colourful status in PixInsight.

I’m learning how to run the SeeStar with NINA and have a sequence of about 20 panes in the region around the Keyhole I want to run. Panes have 10% overlap but I will use a large drizzle for subs. I’ve tried a lesser region around Carina using Pixinsight and with less sophisticated choice of panes in the past with not great luck. I’ll try to post here if the rain stops and I get the 3-4 hours time time on target this should take.

Not out of your league at all, Jeff. It’s good to hear of new tools, particularly for new imaging devices. I must admit that I have never really investigated Siril as a package, more through my own reluctance to learn yet another processing package than anything fundamental about Siril. Motivated by your post, I will be a bit of research into this.

Thank you

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Brian Boyle avatar

Oscar H. · Feb 2, 2026 at 05:06 AM

Try Image Composite Editor

note, it only works on stretched images, and I recommend not doing anymore stretching after stitching

Thanks Oscar, I will also look into this one. I wonder it is going to be better than PTGui,, which I have always thought of the gold standard here. Again the need to stretch the image first is likely to be a bit of a dis-advantage.

Norman Hey avatar

Just a thought: John Murphy, the author of PMM, may be able to help. He has been very helpful to me in the past, albeit with simple issues. You try reaching out to him for advice.

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Brian Boyle avatar

Norman Hey · Feb 3, 2026 at 02:04 AM

Just a thought: John Murphy, the author of PMM, may be able to help. He has been very helpful to me in the past, albeit with simple issues. You try reaching out to him for advice.

Good idea. John has done an amazing job with these tools, but I was a bit reluctant to contact him for something that pushes his software beyond its limit.

It’s the sort of thing I am a little surprised that the paid coders for PI haven’t taken up and refined. [Of course, they might well be working on it as I write this]

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Palmito avatar

Hi,

I came across your topic and thought I would chime in, since I have been tackling a humongous mosaic myself.

First things first, your tiles must be clean with no gradients. I like to use ABE, I find it very efficient and it does not remove real signal like most other tools can do, the only thing I change is “function degree”, depending on my dataset I will lower it to 2 if I have simple gradients or even 1 if I am sure I only have linear gradients.

Second I have tested many things in the past months, including scripting PMM for it to decompose the work into row/columns and iterate until full mosaic is built. I have not had much success down this road as getting good results means fine tuning parameters for each run (especially scale) and I can’t automate this.

So I then went the Montage road http://montage.ipac.caltech.edu/

There are good examples on the website and scripting a Montage pipeline is fairly easy.

Provided you have good WCS astrometric solutions Montage will produce wonderful results.

If you have a try with montage, you need to convert your images to mono fits files, also you need to crop each tile (like a few px on each edge) before using them for best results.

In my current dataset I have hard solutions to solve and Montage wasn’t able to get rid of seams for all tiles, plus some doubled stars in some overlap zones. So that is when I went down the rabbit hole, long story short I am now working with my own code.

While I have more control and information with my own code, the key is still quality of WCS astrometric solutions. And in that regard installing a local astrometry.net is what I found to produce the best results I think (I started with ASTAP).

Keep in mind YMMV and that it is a hard problem to tackle and as such it will take a fair amount of time and effort to get it right.

CS,

Carl

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Wei-Hao Wang avatar

Hi Brian,

I chose not to reply when you posted this two months ago, because I didn’t feel I have a good solution and I didn’t know exactly what’s the problem you were facing. Now this topic was brought back by Carl. I feel a bit more confident about talking about it, because I also struggled with this in the past few months and I had found a solution.

Based on your description (wanted to use photometric mosaic but it’s too difficult to use), I guess the bottleneck you were facing was matching the brightness/color/contrast of the mosaic panels. I experienced many methods: photometric mosaic, linear fit, APP, Registar. All these have the capability to match the brightness/color/contrast of mosaic panels, and none worked for me.

Photometric mosaic first. It’s tedious to use as you mentioned. Furthermore, matching panel by panel can propagate errors to subsequent panels. So this isn’t really ideal. My way of using photometric mosaic was to shoot a wide-field image that covers the entire mosaic. It’s wide-field, so it usually contains much more nebular-free regions for good gradient removal. The gradient removed wide-field image can then be registered (WCS matched) to each mosaic panel to form a reference image. (So if you have N mosaic panels, you will have N reference images from the wide-field image.). Then the reference image can be used in photometric mosaic to both remove the gradient in its counterpart mosaic panel, as well as match the brightness/color/contrast of the panel to the reference image. Since all reference images come from the same wide-field image, this essentially match the brightness/color/contrast of all the panels. Then the panels can go through mosaic by coordinates and the standard mosaicking process. You mentioned that gradient merge mosaic does not work well. This is almost always true, and I truly think it is a flawed tool. However, if all the panels have nearly perfectly removed gradient and nearly perfectly matched brightness/color/contrast to start with, then gradient merge mosaic actually works OK. It needs your help to perform well.

The above method still doesn’t escape from the fact that photometric mosaic works only on a pair of image each time. So it’s still tedious. But it’s much more efficient than asking it to work on two large images (created by mosaic by coordinates) where only a tiny fraction of them actually contain data. If it can give nice results, I find the time required by this worthwhile…… if it can give nice results. This used to work for me in the past, but not any more for my recent, much larger mosaic. (A small fraction of this mosaic can be seen here.) Photometric mosaic couldn’t match the brightness/color/contrast well enough. Nor does any other methods (APP, linear fit in PI, Registar, etc).

I came to the conclusion that none of these method can match the brightness/color/contrast of my mosaic panels because the star density is way too high. Extremely high star density (reaching “confusion limit,” I believe you know this term as a radio astronomer) means problematic photometry, and I believe this causes trouble for photometric mosaic. At the same time, linearly fitting the pixels who are either extremely dark (background region) or are very bright (stars) is subject to the PSF difference of the two panels in the overlapping region. This causes trouble for fitting based methods like linear fit, Registar, APP, gradient merge mosaic, etc. They only work well when the overlapping regions contain diffuse emission with large brightness variation (so the fitting mainly relies on the diffuse part, not on stars).

I spend nearly half year experiencing all kinds of different mosaic strategies. None of them worked, likely because of the reasons I mentioned above. At the end, after realizing (or guessing) that the stars are the problems, what I did are:

  1. Use a wide-field image as a gradient removal model, like I used to do with photometric mosaic. However, this time, I don’t use photometric mosaic. I use PI’s multi-scale gradient correction tool. I believe most people use this tool with PI’s MARS database. But this tool does offer the option of using user’s own reference image. In general, it works almost as well as photometric mosaic, but much much faster, and it’s easily scriptable. So if you have a good reference image, this is the way to go, for the gradient removal part.

  2. Mosaic by coordinates for all the panels.

  3. I rely on the fact that my target (Milky Way around Crux region, shoot from Western Australia) had relatively a small range of airmass during my imaging and there were no clouds (photometric condition). So I gave up matching the contrast of the panels (the slope term in the fitting) and I assume they all have consistent photometry to start with. Then all I want is to match a constant offset in the image background (caused by different levels of airglow/aurora). I wrote a PI script (with help from ChatGPT) to calculate the medians (R,G,B separated) of the overlapping region between panels to subtract the median offset. This is done on pairs of panels after mosaic by coordinates.

  4. Here comes the key. If the median offset subtraction is done on regular images, it will equally suffer from the problems caused by dense star fields. It will NOT work. What I did is, I sent two sets of images to mosaic by coordinates in step #2: the starless version and the star-only version. (I use StarNet by the way.) Only the starless ones need to go through the median offset matching process, the star-only images don’t (since the star-only images have zero background). This matches the starless panels very nicely. The matched panels were sent to gradient merge mosaic, and it can handle whatever small amounts of residual mis-match in background brightness and create a seamless starless mosaic without artifacts.

  5. Then I use the regular integration tool to combine the star-only panels, and add the star-only mosaic to the starless mosaic. Basically this is how this image was created. This is a small subset of the mosaic that I am working on. The success is a proof of concept. I also tried the method on the full mosaic at a reduced resolution (to speed up the processing). Now I just need to find time to work on the full mosaic at native resolution. It could be another half year of works.

The method I described above is definitely not a perfect solution. Instead, it is created because none of the existing tools work. It’s a terrible workaround, I would say. But I hope what I wrote above can give you some ideas—especially if your struggle has the same nature as mine. If the fundamental issue of your struggle is different, then the above may not help.

Anyway, good luck to your works. I am looking forward to see your results.

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