The best setup for 3000 USD

SkyHoinarAmaroczekAstroRBAMaxim
25 replies1k views
Amaroczek avatar
Hello!

After buying and testing the Seestar, I would like to start my adventure with astrophotography seriously.
Can I ask you for advice on what can be put together for about $3,000 so that the money spent makes sense?

What I want to include:
  • Camera
  • Telescope
  • Mount
  • Filter
  • Guide Scope
  • Guide Camera
  • Controller


Is it possible to put together a set that allows you to take pictures but also view objects "live" through the eyepiece?

My location is a house in the suburbs (I have a garden at my disposal where I can set up my equipment), Bortle level 5.
Engaging
Alan Hancox avatar
Alot depends on your interests. Deep sky, Planets etc. Most if not all my gear is used. I think for the available funds you have it would be mostly used gear. I wouldn`t be put off by this though as most if not all astrophotographers are very careful with the items they buy.

I`d certainly buy something like an HEQ5 pro or older EQ6 or NEQ6 as a base to start with. I was lucky to drop on an EQ6R pro for £550 but i`m guessing that was a very lucky find!!!!
AstroRBA avatar
Here's a decent option around your budget that you could easily transport around as well; 

William Optics 61mm ZS w Flattener or 50mm Redcat 900 USD

Sky Watcher GTI w Tripod kit 750 USD

ZWO ASI294MC Pro 1000 USD

ZWO 30mm Guide / 120 Camera / ASI Air 550 USD

Misc. hardware/cables etc. 100 USD

3300 USD total

This would give you a pretty wide field of 2 x 3 degrees (with the ZS61 and even wider with the Redcat)

You can add a filter drawer at any time as well for about 300 extra dollars including an Optolong enhance 2" filter.

Note that the ASI Air makes this a complete system with all necessary AP tools etc., and Phone/iPad App control etc.; and if you really want to, the ZS 61 also does allow eyepiece viewing with about a 10 minute conversion from AP to visual mode (although I'm betting you would never bother once in AP mode!)

Pete
Helpful
Amaroczek avatar
@AstroRBA Thank you very much for sending this kit, it looks amazing for a first kit ever.

Will it be hard for me to assemble and run it myself?
Maxim avatar
@AstroRBA Thank you very much for sending this kit, it looks amazing for a first kit ever.

Will it be hard for me to assemble and run it myself?

It will be hard, but in the end very rewarding  

asiair is great but if you go with touptek alternative + pegasus powerbox + existing laptop or quieter 4c, you might be able to save even more.
AstroRBA avatar
@AstroRBA Thank you very much for sending this kit, it looks amazing for a first kit ever.

Will it be hard for me to assemble and run it myself?

Hi again - this kit would be very straightforward to assemble and, depending upon your living/storage situation, you could leave it assembled and move it around very easily (from inside to outside and for travel to dark sites etc.; ). or simply toss a small Telegizmo 365 cover over it if you wanted to leave it place and keep the polar alignment relatively unscathed.

I have the ZS61 version of the setup that I suggested and I usually power it from a Celestron power tank but a hard wired power adaptor or auto power is fine too if it's within reach.

I love the versatility of this kit and it's definitely a plus to know that you can use it virtually any time and any where with *very little set up time*  (usually just polar alignment which can be done with the ASI Air).

Here's a very quick 3 hour NA/Pelican nebula shot using the ZS61 kit as described using the Optolong L-Enhance filter; I took this up at a friend's place during a BBQ recently and it just ran in the background.

My opinion is that this, or something similar, would be a great start up system that won't give you too many headaches!

Pete

Helpful Engaging Supportive
Amaroczek avatar
Maxim:
@AstroRBA Thank you very much for sending this kit, it looks amazing for a first kit ever.

Will it be hard for me to assemble and run it myself?

It will be hard, but in the end very rewarding  

asiair is great but if you go with touptek alternative + pegasus powerbox + existing laptop or quieter 4c, you might be able to save even more.

I'll stick with asiair since they seem more popular.

I have a question:
As for the telescope itself: how much would a better telescope cost in this set? I mean, to achieve a higher level of images obtained?
Maxim avatar
I have a question:
As for the telescope itself: how much would a better telescope cost in this set? I mean, to achieve a higher level of images obtained?

Any telescope that produces minimum abberations(acceptable corners for the chosen sensor and no chromatic abberation) is good, after that it's the question of your goals and budget. Redcat and zs61 are good already, askar fra300 is good enough as well. Something more expensive will most likely have more FL and weight therefore pushing that mount to its limits.
Concise
Amaroczek avatar
Is it worth looking into used equipment? I generally prefer to buy new things because of the warranty, how is the durability of used telescopes?
Engaging
Maxim avatar
Is it worth looking into used equipment? I generally prefer to buy new things because of the warranty, how is the durability of used telescopes?

There are certain risks of course, and some things are easier to test while buying than others. It's easier to check the camera darks and lights and it's cooling. It's more difficult to check the telescope for star shapes, or the mount for tracking performance. The best case if the person you're buying from has a set of images taken with that equipment.
AstroRBA avatar
Is it worth looking into used equipment? I generally prefer to buy new things because of the warranty, how is the durability of used telescopes?

Used can save you a few dollars (especially the sales tax portion) and small refractors should be a good gamble as opposed to any reflector type which could have collimation pains. 

BUT! It may be hard to find used equipment that's this specific (especially the SW GTi mount as it's a fairly new product release, and other mounts may not be as portable etc.)
Joe Linington avatar
I am going to suggest a similar but different setup for a single reason. The Mount is KING.

- SharpStar 61 EDPH III and 0.75 reducer, $748 at Agena Astro or
-AT80EDT and 0.8 reducer, $818.95 at Astronomics

-SVBony SV405CC (IMX294 cooled) $646.39 or
-SVBony SVBony SV605CC (IMX533 cooled) $617.03 (I prefer this camera)

-SV165 Guide Scope and SV905C guide camera $129.99

-iOptron CEM26 Basic Mount, $1298
-iOptron GEM28 Basic Mount, $1348
-SkyWatcher HEQ5, $1299 (the iOptrons are better IMHO)

Filters - SV220 dual NB filter and UV/IR filter $119.99 + 15.99

Total for the most budget version of the above is $2929 and the mount can carry a 102mm refractor or 150mm newt comfortably. The scopes are both triplets and of good quality, the guide camera is colour instead of mono but it will work just as well. This include filters that the other setup did not and use any old 4 core laptop made in the last 10 years with NINA and PHD2. You can optionally buy ZWO cameras and an ASIAir but that will add significant cost and the mount is where you want to spend the money.
Helpful
SkyHoinar avatar
Joe Linington:
I am going to suggest a similar but different setup for a single reason. The Mount is KING.

- SharpStar 61 EDPH III and 0.75 reducer, $748 at Agena Astro or
-AT80EDT and 0.8 reducer, $818.95 at Astronomics

-SVBony SV405CC (IMX294 cooled) $646.39 or
-SVBony SVBony SV605CC (IMX533 cooled) $617.03 (I prefer this camera)

-SV165 Guide Scope and SV905C guide camera $129.99

-iOptron CEM26 Basic Mount, $1298
-iOptron GEM28 Basic Mount, $1348
-SkyWatcher HEQ5, $1299 (the iOptrons are better IMHO)

Filters - SV220 dual NB filter and UV/IR filter $119.99 + 15.99

Total for the most budget version of the above is $2929 and the mount can carry a 102mm refractor or 150mm newt comfortably. The scopes are both triplets and of good quality, the guide camera is colour instead of mono but it will work just as well. This include filters that the other setup did not and use any old 4 core laptop made in the last 10 years with NINA and PHD2. You can optionally buy ZWO cameras and an ASIAir but that will add significant cost and the mount is where you want to spend the money.

I also suggest to invest first in a good mount. You will use it for years.
The optical tubes you will definitely change them over the years especially when the focus of your interest will change; maybe you want to start with some wider field deep sky and get little by little into imaging small planetary nebulae or galaxies. But the mount is the basis of your entire setup. It is like the foundation of a house.
Helpful Insightful Respectful
AstroRBA avatar
SkyHoinar:
Joe Linington:
I am going to suggest a similar but different setup for a single reason. The Mount is KING.

- SharpStar 61 EDPH III and 0.75 reducer, $748 at Agena Astro or
-AT80EDT and 0.8 reducer, $818.95 at Astronomics

-SVBony SV405CC (IMX294 cooled) $646.39 or
-SVBony SVBony SV605CC (IMX533 cooled) $617.03 (I prefer this camera)

-SV165 Guide Scope and SV905C guide camera $129.99

-iOptron CEM26 Basic Mount, $1298
-iOptron GEM28 Basic Mount, $1348
-SkyWatcher HEQ5, $1299 (the iOptrons are better IMHO)

Filters - SV220 dual NB filter and UV/IR filter $119.99 + 15.99

Total for the most budget version of the above is $2929 and the mount can carry a 102mm refractor or 150mm newt comfortably. The scopes are both triplets and of good quality, the guide camera is colour instead of mono but it will work just as well. This include filters that the other setup did not and use any old 4 core laptop made in the last 10 years with NINA and PHD2. You can optionally buy ZWO cameras and an ASIAir but that will add significant cost and the mount is where you want to spend the money.

I also suggest to invest first in a good mount. You will use it for years.
The optical tubes you will definitely change them over the years especially when the focus of your interest will change; maybe you want to start with some wider field deep sky and get little by little into imaging small planetary nebulae or galaxies. But the mount is the basis of your entire setup. It is like the foundation of a house.

The mount is asolutely paramount (pun intended!) and is not something to skimp on for sure BUT portability *might* also be king in some cases where darker skies (or a different hemisphere) could be a goal. The SW GTi is extremely light and portable (I've packed it in my airline carry on bag). I love iOptron as well (I have a CEM120) and I'm betting that once the OP gets addicted to this vocation there will be more equipment on their horizon!
Engaging Supportive
SkyHoinar avatar
SkyHoinar:
Joe Linington:
I am going to suggest a similar but different setup for a single reason. The Mount is KING.

- SharpStar 61 EDPH III and 0.75 reducer, $748 at Agena Astro or
-AT80EDT and 0.8 reducer, $818.95 at Astronomics

-SVBony SV405CC (IMX294 cooled) $646.39 or
-SVBony SVBony SV605CC (IMX533 cooled) $617.03 (I prefer this camera)

-SV165 Guide Scope and SV905C guide camera $129.99

-iOptron CEM26 Basic Mount, $1298
-iOptron GEM28 Basic Mount, $1348
-SkyWatcher HEQ5, $1299 (the iOptrons are better IMHO)

Filters - SV220 dual NB filter and UV/IR filter $119.99 + 15.99

Total for the most budget version of the above is $2929 and the mount can carry a 102mm refractor or 150mm newt comfortably. The scopes are both triplets and of good quality, the guide camera is colour instead of mono but it will work just as well. This include filters that the other setup did not and use any old 4 core laptop made in the last 10 years with NINA and PHD2. You can optionally buy ZWO cameras and an ASIAir but that will add significant cost and the mount is where you want to spend the money.

I also suggest to invest first in a good mount. You will use it for years.
The optical tubes you will definitely change them over the years especially when the focus of your interest will change; maybe you want to start with some wider field deep sky and get little by little into imaging small planetary nebulae or galaxies. But the mount is the basis of your entire setup. It is like the foundation of a house.

The mount is asolutely paramount (pun intended!) and is not something to skimp on for sure BUT portability *might* also be king in some cases where darker skies (or a different hemisphere) could be a goal. The SW GTi is extremely light and portable (I've packed it in my airline carry on bag). I love iOptron as well (I have a CEM120) and I'm betting that once the OP gets addicted to this vocation there will be more equipment on their horizon!

I also had portability in mind when I chose my setup, as I use to take it with me in holidays. Mine is an iOptron HEM27 that I can pack also in my cabin luggage (it weights only 3.5 Kg). But it is indeed on the more expensive side. But I saw recently two less expensive ones launched by iOptron: HEM15 and HAE16, at around $1300. The advantage is that they are strain wave mounts and they do not need a counterweight (so no additional weight to pack). And they can carry more payload (8Kg), which gives room for upgrading the optical tube later on.
Helpful Concise
Joe Linington avatar
SkyHoinar:
I also had portability in mind when I chose my setup, as I use to take it with me in holidays. Mine is an iOptron HEM27 that I can pack also in my cabin luggage (it weights only 3.5 Kg). But it is indeed on the more expensive side. But I saw recently two less expensive ones launched by iOptron: HEM15 and HAE16, at around $1300. The advantage is that they are strain wave mounts and they do not need a counterweight (so no additional weight to pack). And they can carry more payload (8Kg), which gives room for upgrading the optical tube later on.

Absolutely the smaller strain wave mounts are a great idea. My only issue recommending them for a budget setup is the $1300 price doesn't come with a tripod and that ads another several hundred dollars to the price. Almost every standard mount comes with a tripod in the price and almost no strain wave mounts do. Why?? I think the marketing department is trying to obscure the full price.
Helpful Concise
Amaroczek avatar
another question about the camera:

I wonder if it wouldn't be better to buy a slightly more expensive dslr, because I would like to use it also apart from the telescope to take standard pictures. how much does a good dslr cost so as not to lose the asi quality?
Claudio Boicu avatar
another question about the camera:

I wonder if it wouldn't be better to buy a slightly more expensive dslr, because I would like to use it also apart from the telescope to take standard pictures. how much does a good dslr cost so as not to lose the asi quality?

the main difference in buying a dslr or a astro dedicated camera, is cooling. the fact that you can cool your sensor down to -10,-15 or even -20 degrees, allows you to take much longer exposures, without the hot pixels eating your image up. I have a Sony a7ii that I modified myself, and already in a 3 minute exposure, there were more hot pixels than stars. I don't know if they are fully removable using darks because as far as I know hot pixels are random, but I find a dedicated astronomy camera will beat a dslr in every way, because they are designed to work under "harsher" conditions. they are build to stand firm against the elements. now I don't say that dslr (or mirrorless) imaging is not good, ive taken soon amazing pictures using my mirrorless hooked up to the scope, but generally for deep space imaging, you would prefer to have something more dedicated. also another point why I would go for a astro cam, is that if the dslr is not modified, and you buy it stock, its not gonna be sensitive to ha. all the red gas that is out there, is getting blocked by the uv ir cut filter infront of the stock camera. sure you can modify it, like I did mine. either you send it out to someone to do it( which costs money) or you do it yourself, but you need to be okay with breaking your camera. when I did my Sony, I took it apart and in the process accidentally damaged a cable, which made my camera turn off after a few seconds. after that I just send it out to someone to repair it (so its a lot of headache, if your not experienced). if you decide not to modify your camera, you can still capture deep sky targets, but you are more limited to broadband targets, like galaxies, or reflection nebulae like the dust around the pleiades or or in the Orion Nebula. using a dedicated camera for astrophotography, you don't have to worry about that because the uv ir cut filter that is infront of the sensor, doesn't block the ha bandpass, so you can capture ha targets, even without a narrowband filter (best done under dark skies). another thing is the ability to create a dark library with an astrocamera. when you shoot your lights, the noise is dependent of how cool or warm your sensor is. because you can't control that with a dslr/mirrorless, you have to take your darks right after your lights. with a astro cam, you can cool down your sensor at lets say -10 degrees, and you can shoot darks when you want. you can create a dark library with different exposure lengths and different temperatures, which in my opinion is very very useful and it saves you a lot of times because the darks need to be the exact same exposure length and your lights, and if you are taking 5 min subs, then you will have to take 5 min darks aswell . so there is pros and cons to a astro cam or a dslr, both can capture the wonders of the universe, but if you do an investment for something specific for astrophotography, I wouldn't skim on the camera;). but as the other guys said: the most important thing in a system is the mount. without a good mount you can do whatever you want, you won't get a good outcome.
Helpful
SkyHoinar avatar
another question about the camera:

I wonder if it wouldn't be better to buy a slightly more expensive dslr, because I would like to use it also apart from the telescope to take standard pictures. how much does a good dslr cost so as not to lose the asi quality?

If you already have a DSLR you can start with it (you can also modify it for astrophotography if you want). It will save you some budget and it will allow you to learn and practice the techniques and achieve reasonable (even good) results.
If you do not have one, then I suggest you go directly for a dedicated astrophotography cooled camera. Buying a DSLR + the astro-modfication you might end up within the same budget as for a dedicated camera with cooling (like for instance the ones based on the IMX585 sensor) while you will not achieve comparable results.
From my own experience: I started with a modified DSLR some time ago, when there were no so many choices on the market for dedicated astrophotography cameras or they were too expensive. I wanted a camera for 3 purposes: astrophotography, infrared daytime photography and normal photography (with the necessary filters of course).
And I had a lot of fun for years and it allowed me to learn. Now I have a dedicated cooled camera and I would not go back to the DSLR. Also my skills evolved over time and so my expectations :-)
In conclusion, my personal opinion is that if you have a DSRL then start with it. If not, then my advice is to go directly for a dedicated camera with cooling.
Helpful Respectful Engaging Supportive
SkyHoinar avatar
Joe Linington:
SkyHoinar:
I also had portability in mind when I chose my setup, as I use to take it with me in holidays. Mine is an iOptron HEM27 that I can pack also in my cabin luggage (it weights only 3.5 Kg). But it is indeed on the more expensive side. But I saw recently two less expensive ones launched by iOptron: HEM15 and HAE16, at around $1300. The advantage is that they are strain wave mounts and they do not need a counterweight (so no additional weight to pack). And they can carry more payload (8Kg), which gives room for upgrading the optical tube later on.

Absolutely the smaller strain wave mounts are a great idea. My only issue recommending them for a budget setup is the $1300 price doesn't come with a tripod and that ads another several hundred dollars to the price. Almost every standard mount comes with a tripod in the price and almost no strain wave mounts do. Why?? I think the marketing department is trying to obscure the full price.

That's correct. Indeed, the tripod is sold separately so you have to pay extra.
Well Written
noon avatar
I agree that the mount is primary.
A solid wide-field refractor, would be secondary… all the recommendations above would work great. Most of them have a 55mm back focus which would work with an SLR or with a mirrorless camera (with extension tubes) with an adapter which can be had for less than $20. Refractors with a Petzval design generally don't need flatteners and are more forgiving with back focus, which comes in handy when you start out.
A guide camera and a guide scope will allow you to take longer exposures while retaining sharp stars.
You can run your rig using an old laptop, or pick up a small factor pc for $150-$200 that can run your rig with free software like NINA, or an ASIAIR but then you are stuck with all ZWO products, for better or for worse.
Then if you have money left over I'd look at a cooled DSO camera.

Personally I had a DSLR modified and I had a bad experience so I wish I had just taken my money and put it towards a cooled astro camera to begin with.

There is a marketplace here on astrobin that is just getting started.  Other good places for used items are Cloudy Nights and Astromart (subscription required… but worth it if you are in the market for used stuff). Generally you will find decent scopes and mounts from 25-50% off new prices. Lots of people in this hobby either upgrade and sell their old kit to pay for the new or find they don't use it down the road and part ways with it at a loss.

If you are patient you can find good deals on used equipment and the nice thing is if you buy used, and keep it in decent condition, you can probably sell it again for close to what you paid for it. If you buy new you may be getting a warranty, but depending on the manufacturer and where they service the equipment, it may be a bit of a pain. I would recommend you try out the used market sometime. I picked up a RedCat 51 in great condition for $500 that has served me well. If you ever switch to a mono setup down the road you can save significantly on filters/filterwheels, etc.

I'm seeing a ASI294MC for sale on Astromart right now for $580
I see a RedCat 51 version 2 for $650

If you go the previously owned route just ask for lots of pictures, ask lots of questions, and take your time.

Best of luck in your adventure and clear skies!
Ryan
Helpful
Amaroczek avatar
Ultimately the list will look like this:
  1. Apochromatic refractor AP 61/360 ZenithStar ZS61 II OTA $ 715
  2. Flattener Flat61A for Z61 $ 287
  3. Camera ASI 294 MC Pro Color $ 1,349
  4. Guidescope 30mm mini $ 155
  5. Camera ASI 120MM Mini Mono $ 194
  6. ASIAIR MINI Astrophotography-Computer $ 270
  7. Mount GEM28 GoTo LiteRoc $ 1,432
  8. Svbony SV220 Dual-Band 7 nm 2" Nebula Filter (SKU: W9172B) 219 USD
  9. ZWO UV IR CUT 2" filter 57 USD


Total: 4650 USD

It seems to me that in Poland (where I live) some products are a bit more expensive.
SkyHoinar avatar
Ultimately the list will look like this:
  1. Apochromatic refractor AP 61/360 ZenithStar ZS61 II OTA $ 715
  2. Camera ASI 294 MC Pro Color $ 1,349
  3. Guidescope 30mm mini $ 155
  4. ASIAIR MINI Astrophotography-Computer $ 270
  5. Mount GEM28 GoTo LiteRoc $ 1,432
  6. Svbony SV220 Dual-Band 7 nm 2" Nebula Filter (SKU: W9172B) 219 USD
  7. UV IR cut 1,25" filter (ZWO) 28 USD


Total: around 4200 USD

It seems to me that in Poland (where I live) some products are a bit more expensive.

Check also on these websites:
www.teleskop-express.de
www.robtics.nl
SkyHoinar avatar
Ultimately the list will look like this:
  1. Apochromatic refractor AP 61/360 ZenithStar ZS61 II OTA $ 715
  2. Camera ASI 294 MC Pro Color $ 1,349
  3. Guidescope 30mm mini $ 155
  4. ASIAIR MINI Astrophotography-Computer $ 270
  5. Mount GEM28 GoTo LiteRoc $ 1,432
  6. Svbony SV220 Dual-Band 7 nm 2" Nebula Filter (SKU: W9172B) 219 USD
  7. UV IR cut 1,25" filter (ZWO) 28 USD


Total: around 4200 USD

It seems to me that in Poland (where I live) some products are a bit more expensive.

You will still need a guiding camera for the guidescope.
And you might also need a field flattener and a holder for the filters (the field flattener might come with one).
Also pay attention to the size of the filters: you have one in 2'' and the other in 1.25".
Helpful
Amaroczek avatar
I have added camera for guidescope and flattener to the list: https://www.astrobin.com/forum/post/175542/
Can you check if these two items match? Thank you in advance.


Which holder for the filters do you recommend for this set?