Keeping telescope protected and dry when permanently mounted outside under a cover

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David Moore avatar
For the past 12 months I have kept my pillar mounted, 8" Newtonian dry without scope, mirror or mount deterioration, while enclosed in a TeleGizmos 365 series cover. I have weighed down the pillar with sand bags and tied the cover tightly at the bottom to stop air getting in and out, as much as possible. I also tied it in the middle to reduce the volume of air inside. Recently I have started putting a ground sheet over the scope to stop the covers metal foil inner tearing, which it does easily. I wipe the scope down after a session as I get a lot of condensation on the top of the scope during the night very often, as the RH is often >80%  during winter months here in south Devon , UK, near the sea.
I put 5 bags of silica gel arranged inside the cover which I dry out roughly weekly either in the over or in the microwave. This must be done with care as if it gets too hot it becomes very dark and will not absorb moisture any more and the bags will melt, spilling silica gel beads all over the kitchen and this doesn't go down well and is a pain at 3 AM! It will also get very hot if heated for too long in the microwave and it doesn't do a microwave any good to have no moisture for it to heat. 
 There is plenty of advice on the internet for how long to heat it for in the oven or the microwave. In the oven the bags should be emptied first and not put in the oven. I tend to heat the bags several times in the microwave, letting them cool each time until the bags stop feeling wet and the silica gel turns orange. Older silica gel turned blue but it has been withdrawn from sale because of health risks. 
It should not be heated so much that the bag cannot be touched but long enough for the gel to be refreshed. I have bought 100 mesh bags to contain the gel as I melted several in places in getting the heating right. 1 bag should not contain too much as the beads will get hotter in the middle than the outside. I also put a cloth over the microwave turntable otherwise the bottom of the bags can melt too easily. I bought a 5lb container of silica gel which comes with 10 empty bags and I fill 5 of them.  Little sachets are not any use.

I also have a small cheap battery operated temp and RH sensor with remote display that I hang on the scope.  The receiver unit is in my study 25 metres away in a thick walled cottage and gives a continuous readout of temp and RH. When the RH gets over about 75% I like to refresh the silica gel. The sensor should not be allowed to get saturated for long as RH sensors do not cope with this well and can fairly quickly become inaccurate. I have no connection with any manufacturer or distributor and just thought my experience might help someone. 
The technique will not work so well on a tripod mount as the bottom of the cover will be open to the elements and the silica gel will get exhausted too quickly. Without the silica gel the inside would get wet in the climate here and the mirror would suffer and some surfaces would likely rust. I forgot the silica gel recently and everything was wet inside the cover and the mirror had condensation covering it.
I cover the stainless steel part of the tripods feet with grease as I have noticed a tiny amount of corrosion after 12 months outdoors. 



 
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andrea tasselli avatar
I have kept my telescopes (and still do) out in the backyard (I live in Lincoln) for nearly a decade without that kind of arrangement you have done. Had a tarp cover both scope and mount(s) and relaying on their dead weight  to keep them there. Both mounts where on tripod and only the steel bits rusted (but I kept refreshing the grease seasonally). Nowadays I have better covers for both my mounts and scopes and keep everything dry (inside the cover, obviously) by using small heaters (the kind used in greenhouse) with their own thermostats and never had any issue with dew, which is a major improvement on the past (I had to blow dry the things at time in winter before using them).

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Claudio Tenreiro avatar
I am really interested to know your experiences, I get condensation on the mount and sometimes on the scope tube, not for long, I mean it is there for something like a couple of hours. I did try many things and it is always present. I used something like a TelegGizmos and it was worst, I am thinking to get the one shown, the 365 but still I am curious to know experiences related with condensation on the cold parts of the system. By the time been I am getting some HR sensors from Amazon and more instruments to get more data. When taking images I am keeping an eye on the DP, so I can turn on the dew heaters on time, but when is parked waiting for nice weather, it does condensate…
Thanks for the topic and looking forward for the options,
CS!
andrea tasselli avatar
Claudio Tenreiro:
I am really interested to know your experiences, I get condensation on the mount and sometimes on the scope tube, not for long, I mean it is there for something like a couple of hours. I did try many things and it is always present. I used something like a TelegGizmos and it was worst, I am thinking to get the one shown, the 365 but still I am curious to know experiences related with condensation on the cold parts of the system. By the time been I am getting some HR sensors from Amazon and more instruments to get more data. When taking images I am keeping an eye on the DP, so I can turn on the dew heaters on time, but when is parked waiting for nice weather, it does condensate...
Thanks for the topic and looking forward for the options,

I had similar issue like that in the past, worst of it all I ended up having condensation inside the CCD! Now, with the heater on night and day all is nice and dry. Mind you, there are night when not only condenses on the tube and the mount, it can even cover the whole thing in frost, except the motors and the cameras. But I have the dew heaters at full blast so that doesn't bother me.
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David Moore avatar
Well said. Clearly either heats the air so that it is above the dew point to stop condensation or take moisture out of the air and lower the dew point below the air temp for the same effect. Both work and both have advantages and disadvantageous. As the absolute humidity rises, as in the tropics, it's probably better to heat the air as more silica gel  would be needed to do the job. However living in England that isn't my problem. I also don't have a mains outlet that can be safely left powered up in the rain.
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andrea tasselli avatar
Well said. Clearly either heats the air so that it is above the dew point to stop condensation or take moisture out of the air and lower the dew point below the air temp for the same effect. Both work and both have advantages and disadvantageous. As the absolute humidity rises, as in the tropics, it's probably better to heat the air as more silica gel  would be needed to do the job. However living in England that isn't my problem. I also don't have a mains outlet that can be safely left powered up in the rain.

It is not only that. After a very wet night (in terms of DP) I might end up with everything covered in condensation. Not sure how many satchels of silica would need to get rid of that much water. Besides, I would need to have a tight wrapping, like you do, and that isn't feasible with tripods. Used to have the same issue with main power out in the backyard but eventually I bit the bullet and drilled the hole through the main wall and now have fully waterproof sockets on the outer wall powering the two main mounts. Very handy.
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Ruediger avatar
I also leave my optics outside. As described here https://www.astrobin.com/cd88ig/F/?nc=user I only cover it with truck planket on a wooden truss. I have a raspberry Pi with sensors under it and log the data to a data base. I also have a ventilator and a pipe to suppport air circulation. This is switch on 4 times per hour for a few minutes to avoid that moister gets conecentrated in the upper area.
But I take all electronics inside. Removing and attaching only takes some minutes. 

Since the the air can circulate and it is open at the bottom there is no chance that the dump air gets trapped inside. Especially when sun is shining it would become a steam pot and corrosion would happen extremely fast. So for my point of view it is important not to close the cover at the lower end. Otherwise you are building a corrosive containment. 

Also I carefully avoid that the cover is anywhere touching the optics, since if water condenses it will rinse allonfg inside and spill over to the optics at the touch points. If it is not touching condensed water which collects at the inside of the cold planket can drain done and drop off. 

When ever possible I lift the cover at day a bit to improve ventilation. 

These are minor things, but I found out they are vital. I have little to no condensation, but always less compared to an obersing night. In this the equipment has to cope with since it is normal operations conditions. 

Neither the Planewave CDK nor the TEC shows any issues. I have also talked to support and vendor and they see no problem in doing so.
wsg avatar
I have kept my mount and scopes on my tripod or pier for 4 years under a Telegizmos 365.  The rig has been through 70mph winds. rain, hail and freezing rain and 105 F degree highs and -10 degree lows in Oklahoma.  The same set up now sits ready to go in minutes in the temperate rain forest of Vancouver Island with winter time humidity constantly above 85% with a year round average over 70%.  I use no heat or cooling or de humidification at all.  Never have, never will. 
The trick is to NOT bind the cover up or try to seal it in any way.  The cover protects the gear from dew, rain, snow, heat, dust etc, while keeping the temperature of the air around the scope, mount and electronics close to ambient eliminating any chance gradients, frost or dew formation.  The only real problem is the potential for some rust on tripod legs.  I am somewhat fortunate that I live in a semi rural area with no traffic or close neighbors which is probably easier than a city backyard or patio.



New Permanent Pier
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Ruediger avatar
The trick is to NOT bind the cover up or try to seal it in any way.


I totally agree. I think closing and sealing it is a capital failure. You are creating a breading chamber for corrosion and - and what is a real problem - glass fungus.
Claudio Tenreiro avatar
Ruediger:
I also have a ventilator and a pipe to suppport air circulation

I think that is the one additional option I can implement, beside what was said about how to modify the DP, I live in an area which is close to several rivers (kind of surrounded by them) and humidity is an issue. 
It is in -35 and -71 (lat, long) quite close to the mountains, so mist and fog are quite common as well as some haze, the last one I believe depending on wind and pollution.
Alex avatar
I keep thinking about making a pier and whether or not I could get comfortable leaving equipment outside, but I just can't bring myself to do it.  I've seen the TeleGizmos 365 mentioned with positive reviews all over, but I just can't bring myself to try it here in southern Louisiana in the US.
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Stefano Ciapetti avatar
I have used the "gizmo" coovers for several years, but then upgraded to a tent used to cover big motorcycle:

https://astrob.in/m9i1hl/B/

no corrosion (with gizmo the pier was corroded as it was not covered) and I can be ready for imaging immediately.
Dave B avatar
May be worth if using a newt to fit a pc fan to mirror end and leave on blowig air up tube to keep air flow so condensation doesnt build up .

dave
David Moore avatar
I have fitted a fan but I don't need to keep it running after a session as the RH inside the cover is approx 45% when I refresh the gel which is lower than inside the cottage. The gel dries off the condensation of the 8" tube quickly after a session and I can watch the RH drop over a period of hours. I changed the gel 4 days ago and the RH is now 71% and it has rained a lot for a few days now. I will probably refresh it tomorrow as the air is saturated outdoors. The mirror is just like when I bought the scope as is the mount after 12 months continuously outdoors. It's a good suggestion though, but I don't have mains that I can safely leave connected outdoors in the rain.
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