Strange flat with ZWO ASI O III narrowband filter

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Michele Vonci avatar
Hi all,
I recently used for the first time a ZWO ASI O III narrowband filter. The light frames looked a bit weird, with those bright circular patches at the top and in the centre and the wide one at the bottom.



I was hoping it was amp glow, but it's not. The amp glow has a different pattern and has already been subtracted from the light frames. Moreover, I have obtained the same weird pattern with flat frames. 



I can get rid ( well, partially) of the weird pattern in the light frames by using the flat, but I was wondering what causes it in the first instance...crappy ZWO filter quality? Faulty filter? Dirty filter? I should mention that neither the Ha or the S filter show similar issues, so I would exclude reflections in the optical train.
Any thoughts welcome!
Thanks
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andrea tasselli avatar
Usually crappy coatings with variable thickness and poor quality control.
David Nozadze avatar
I have similar patterns on Ha and SII filters on my ASI294 MM Pro and ZWO 36mm filters. Several experienced astrophotographers told me it is an issue with the sensor. It's not even an issue, as in a "problem" or "malfunction". It seems to be quite usual for narrowband imaging. PixInsight and/or Astro Pixel Processor handle these quite well in my case, so no complains so far.
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Michel Makhlouta avatar
I've always had weird patterns in my flats especially with the OIII filter. Aside from what you're facing, I had drapes like effect as well. At first I thought it was the ZWO filter, but then I've seen it with the same setup using astronomik and chroma filters. My guess, it's the sensor.

Aside from the weird looking flats, I've never faced issues with my lights post calibration. I am using the 1600MM pro.

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Michele Vonci avatar
andrea tasselli:
Usually crappy coatings with variable thickness and poor quality control.


Thanks @andrea tasselli , it's what I thought too, being the Zwo filters on the cheap end ofbthe scale, but look below... @Michel Makhlouta reports the same problem even with supposedly high end and expensive chroma filters!
andrea tasselli avatar
I don't rate the Chroma that much. Stick to the well trodden path (Astronomik, Astrodon, Schueler and Optolong) and maybe take risks once in a while. I was surprised on how good a couple of filters from SVBONY were.  Here is a selection of what good filter flats should look like (sky flats):
Vittorio avatar
Hi Andrea,
do you use an ASI 294 MM?
andrea tasselli avatar
Vittorio:
Hi Andrea,
do you use an ASI 294 MM?

No, the colour version, ASI294MC. Those flats were taken with a monochrome imager though. Filters have a 7nm passband.
Vittorio avatar
Ok. It's a tipical issue of 294 series (both mm and mc). A lot of people have this problem. With flat frames the issue can be solved. It not depends by filters or filters brand ( I have the same strange pattern with antlia and baader filters, Ha and SII).
Michele Vonci avatar
Vittorio:
Ok. It's a tipical issue of 294 series (both mm and mc). A lot of people have this problem. With flat frames the issue can be solved. It not depends by filters or filters brand ( I have the same strange pattern with antlia and baader filters, Ha and SII).

My camera is a zwo asi 1600mm monochrome, does it have the same issue?
Vittorio avatar
With asi 1600 I had problems from the edges of filters, I had to use filter masks to cover edges.
FiZzZ avatar
As per my situation, I have the same issue with a Astronomik 6nm Halpha and the ASI294MM.
However watching the sensor under the light often reveals a "color pattern" on the sensor that matches the variations visible on the flat frames.
Till now no problem eliminating the problem through flat calibration (astropixelprocessor)
Bruce Donzanti avatar
I use to have both the 294MM and MC and my flats were the same using Chroma filters.  However, this is a non-issue as the images calibrate just fine.  There is no reason to worry about it if you have good flats.  I would take about 40 flats and dark flats with never an issue  using either APP or PixInsight.
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Michael J. Mangieri avatar
I have had issues much like what is being talked about here with my Astrodon O3 filter and ASI1600.  The images do calibrate just fine, so you shouldn't worry about it.  I have not yet created any master flats with my ASI2600mm and O3 yet so I can't tell if the pattern is the same or not.
John Hayes avatar
It’s valuable to remember what flats do:

1) Correct for cos^4 radiometric irradiance fall off in the field
2) Correct for mechanical vignetting due to any part of the main light bundle being blocked by edges, dust, or dings in the optics.
3) Correct for PRNU (Photon Response Non-Uniform).

Notice that all of these factors are multiplicative to the signal.  Flats won’t correct for additive signals and in fact, additive signal (like stray light) will screw up flat correction. The last item, PRNU stands for Photo Response Non Uniform and it’s an effect that is most evident in the bright regions of the image.  It’s caused by the fact that the responsivity of the individual pixels across the sensor varies a little bit.  PRNU can mimic a random white noise-like variation across an image but it can also manifest as larger features that result from larger spatial variations across the sensor.  Features like graininess, curtains, bands, and patchy regions that show up in properly produced flat data  are evidence of larger, slowly varying spatial variations in PRNU across the sensor.  None of this stuff is necessarily evidence of “crappy manufacturing”; rather it’s evidence that the sensor manufacturing technology is up against a limit.   Each new fab process moves the technology forward and sensors continue to improve, but no sensor will EVER be perfect.  That’s a key reason WHY you do flats in the first place!  You are calibrating the sensor to produce images as if it had perfectly uniform response.  

The fact that PRNU may produce more obvious features when you use an O3 filter is simply the result of the fact that PRNU is actually wavelength dependent.  That means that the spectral response curves that manufacturers show for a sensor is merely an average response from all of the pixels in the sensor.  Each pixel may have a slightly different spectral response that varies with minor impurities distributed through the silicon in the boule that was used to produce the chip.  Again, this is an effect that flats correct.

The bottom line is that if you’ve taken flats correctly (meaning no stray light, proper exposure, and vignetting <~30%) and the image calibrates properly, the variations that you see in your flats are a good thing!  That’s the stuff that you want flats to remove and it shows that the process is doing the right thing.

John
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